Forums - Hulk VS Juggernaut! Show all 137 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Fighting Game Discussion (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8) -- Hulk VS Juggernaut! (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=886) Posted by GameboyGTS on 11:27:2000 08:08 AM: If yall are tired of these dumbass Dragon Ball Z VS people to weak to matter posts here is a real versus question. Who would win in a fight The Incredible Hulk or The Juggernaut??? Hulk's power comes from Gamma radiation and he gets stronger over the years. And Juggernaut's power comes from a special Ruby hidden in a secret location. These are probably the strongest characters in the Marvel universe but who is the strongest of the two... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Whiteboy Weltmeister on 11:27:2000 08:19 AM: What can I say, I know I'l be killed for this, but here it goes... I think Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk and will kill him. There, I said it... DON'T SHOOT!!! Back in F.Net i posted my opinion and nearly got killed by a million comic book fans giving me 1000 different reasons to why Hulks power is infinite and blah blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. Well, i don't care. I have my reasons for believeing what I believe. So there! C-Ya! ----------------------------- "Grapplers Unite!!!" - Me. "I'll dance on your grave" - Raiden sharing his feelings with his opponent, Pro-Wrestler style. "Eins, Zwei, Drei...ENDE!!" - Hugo, ridding his opponent of that extra lifebar with a Gigas Breaker. "Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground!" -Zangief. Posted by Brandon Lee on 11:27:2000 08:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by GameboyGTS: If yall are tired of these dumbass Dragon Ball Z VS people to weak to matter posts here is a real versus question. Who would win in a fight The Incredible Hulk or The Juggernaut??? Hulk's power comes from Gamma radiation and he gets stronger over the years. And Juggernaut's power comes from a special Ruby hidden in a secret location. These are probably the strongest characters in the Marvel universe but who is the strongest of the two... --Brian <IMG SRC="http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif"> I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl This battle has happened 100s of times already. The Hulk usually wins. Why? The Hulk is stronger, has a better healing factor, is much smarter, and unlike the Juggernaut, the Hulk's power keeps increasing during the course of fights. The more angry the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets. And that means trouble. The Hulk, when fully pissed off, has punched his foes so hard, they fly out into outer space. And guess what? Those enemies were never seen again. The Juggernaut only has his Super Charge going for him. But the Hulk can easily dodge the attack. In fact, the Hulk is more agile than the Jugg. Plus, the Hulk has way more fighting experience than the Juggernaut and fights with more strategy than the Juggernaut. Ask Wizard Magazine, Stan Lee, Marvel Comics, or even ask some comic geeks this question. The Hulk is much stronger, much stronger. It is a documented Marvel Fact that the Hulk is Marvel's strongest character. It is a fact that these two characters are stronger than the Juggernaut: Thor (a God, been fighting for over 10,000 years) and Namor (who can trade punches with the Hulk, something the Jugg can't do for a long period of time). The Jugg is tight, but not on the Hulk's level. Although the Hulk lost in a cross-over fight to Superman, it still shows how powerful the Hulk is. The Juggernaut is not on that level. The Juggernaut was beat by Wonder Woman in the All Access Cross-Over Series. So do the math. If he can't take her, then Superman would trash the Juggernaut. Peace. Posted by GameboyGTS on 11:27:2000 08:29 AM: Well I must say you have balls for saying that. I personally think that after a long, hard fight Hulk will come out victorious. Remember Bruce Banner is the Hulk so he has brains and brawn. Juggy is kinda an idiot if you ask me. But anyway Whiteboy Weltmeister why do you think Juggy will win? Dont worry I wont shoot. HA HA HA... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Brandon Lee on 11:27:2000 08:31 AM: quote: Originally posted by Whiteboy Weltmeister: What can I say, I know I'l be killed for this, but here it goes... I think Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk and will kill him. There, I said it... DON'T SHOOT!!! Back in F.Net i posted my opinion and nearly got killed by a million comic book fans giving me 1000 different reasons to why Hulks power is infinite and blah blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. Well, i don't care. I have my reasons for believeing what I believe. So there! C-Ya! Marvel Executives have said the Hulk is sronger. So there it is, right from the horses mouth. Right from the people who created these characters. Stan Lee also says the Hulk is stronger and so does Wizard Magazine. I have seen the Juggernaut be overpowered by Namor and Thor time and time again. And when the Hulk fights the Juggernaut, he keeps beating the Jugg's ass. Posted by GameboyGTS on 11:27:2000 08:37 AM: Yo Brandon Lee thats some good shit! I forgot all about Thor and Namor and I also for got that the Hulk and Juggy fought before silly me http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/biggrin.gif. In the Marvel Vs. DC crossover comics do you know who won between Namor and Aquaman? And who won between Spider-man and Superboy? Im guessing Namor and Spidey were the victors but Im not sure... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Whiteboy Weltmeister on 11:27:2000 08:46 AM: Well, sure, I'll tell you, no problem. the only thing i am going to say is that as soon as someone becomes an ass and decides to flame me for my opinion (something that some Shoryuken.com members do to each other all the time... you'd think those guys come here to just pick fights) I will not bothr answering anymore. But as long as it is kept nice like your posts I enjoy converstaion. Well, actually I guess that my opinion is based on my own little idea that the hulks superpower is too cheap as it appears on the comic book. Hey! If he guy can't be beat because no matter what you do he'l be stronger and not tired, why make a comic about him? It's boring! I like to assume that at some point he will lose by some action. All comic fans say that Hulk will win at the long run based on the same facts pointed out by Brandon Lee. Well, i can't argue with that, but Juggy is unstoppable, and so forth. I know there are a million comic book references to this paricular topic... for instance Jugg lost to Onslaught's first form but Hulk killed his last incarnation. What can I say, I still think jugg will win. Call me whimsicall if you will, but that's just my opinion. I assume that my opinion is biased by the fact that I love Jugg over Hulk... a LOT. jugg has a thug (wow, it rhymes http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/tongue.gif) aura about him that hulk doesn't. What ca I say, hulks endless power theory is boring and rather childish to me..."You can't beat me because no matter what you do I'll get stronger and stronger and stronger and not ever tire and blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzzz" so I like to ignore it. It's boring. I don't read stuff like that. Actually, I don't really read comic books very much anymore, so I'm not that informed, . Hey, sue me! It's my opinion. I'm a Jugg lover to the core. What can I say, I know Hulk fans have comic official info backing them up, so I know I can't argue. But still my opinion is that jugg is stronger and will win. Sorry, I'm stubborn http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/tongue.gif BTW, take into account that Hulk is a good guy and a hero of a big comic series... the editors would NEVER make him loose to a secondary charatcer like Jugg. But perhaps things would be different if Jugg was the good guy and had his own series... think of it, there's a point in what I'm saying. Bye! ----------------------------- "Grapplers Unite!!!" - Me. "I'll dance on your grave" - Raiden sharing his feelings with his opponent, Pro-Wrestler style. "Eins, Zwei, Drei...ENDE!!" - Hugo, ridding his opponent of that extra lifebar with a Gigas Breaker. "Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground!" -Zangief. Posted by GameboyGTS on 11:27:2000 08:58 AM: Whiteboy Weltmeister I agree that too many people come here just to talk shit... I understand what you are saying about the Hulk being boring cuz thats why I dont like Superman cuz everytime he needs it the writers invent a new power for him (infrared vision come on now). Thats why Spidey is my favorite super hero cuz he is strong but not too strong and he gets his ass kicked on a regular basis. I think Hulk is so strong because that is his only power super strength. He has no other unnatural abilities so it is reasonable. --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Dragos on 11:27:2000 09:13 AM: okay gameboy i know i said i wouldnt respond in this post but i guess ill break that cause well you guys say that hulk fights smarter cause his alter ego is bruce banner well the thing is, a long time ago i remember watching the actual episodes played by actors and well when hulk transformed he was extradinarily dumb i mean rock dumb all he does is fight but its out of sheer strength not mind power. Another thing that backed this up is from the iron man cartoon when hulk was in it. When he transformed he was very very very dumb. If you saw all of this you guys would take back your argument about hulk being smart. ~Jason~ http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/kenuppercut.gif Posted by GameboyGTS on 11:27:2000 09:21 AM: Nice try Dragos ol buddy but for a few years now Hulk has been smart in his state as The Hulk. And I might be mistaken but I think he is permanately The Hulk now too. The Hulk show you watched was from the 70s and in the 70s the Hulk was dumb but not anymore. Nice try Jason, nice try. HA HA HA... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Dragos on 11:27:2000 09:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by GameboyGTS: Nice try Dragos ol buddy but for a few years now Hulk has been smart in his state as The Hulk. And I might be mistaken but I think he is permanately The Hulk now too. The Hulk show you watched was from the 70s and in the 70s the Hulk was dumb but not anymore. Nice try Jason, nice try. HA HA HA... Now well humn sorta weird how the iron man cartoons were like aired around 97 and up. And he was still dumb as a rock. If hes smart now in the comics then that is some thing i dont know about and im surprised you do roney haha. But if he is smart now i would like to know how. Im not wrong its just there are two conflicting points the episodes where he is dumb and the comics where he is smart. haha so roney hows that guess i just proved how i am not wrong hahaha. ~Jason~ http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/kenuppercut.gif Posted by GameboyGTS on 11:27:2000 09:31 AM: Oh and by the way Jason the comic book cartoons are never based on current timelines. They are always based on past storylines and alternate ones. So your Iron Man cartoon argument is not a valid one. Like I said before, nice try but you are too uninformed and should not have responded to this topic. HA! HA! HA! HE! HE! HE! HO! HO! HO!... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Whiteboy Weltmeister on 11:27:2000 09:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by GameboyGTS: Whiteboy Weltmeister I agree that too many people come here just to talk shit... I understand what you are saying about the Hulk being boring cuz thats why I dont like Superman cuz everytime he needs it the writers invent a new power for him (infrared vision come on now). Thats why Spidey is my favorite super hero cuz he is strong but not too strong and he gets his ass kicked on a regular basis. I think Hulk is so strong because that is his only power super strength. He has no other unnatural abilities so it is reasonable. --Brian <IMG SRC="http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif"> I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl See, that is exactly the type of reply that I like getting. Things like objectiveness are what makes it worth to come to forums. Spidey is one of my fav heroes as well, if not my outright fave. My fave villains are Jugg and Venom. Bye! ----------------------------- "Grapplers Unite!!!" - Me. "I'll dance on your grave" - Raiden sharing his feelings with his opponent, Pro-Wrestler style. "Eins, Zwei, Drei...ENDE!!" - Hugo, ridding his opponent of that extra lifebar with a Gigas Breaker. "Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground!" -Zangief. Posted by DarthSalamander on 11:27:2000 09:50 AM: So other than Superman who can beat the Hulk in a physical match? Silver Surfer, Galactus? Someone? I remember seeing a comic called the Infinity something and this other big guy seemed to be holding his own against the Hulk very well(think his name was Drax). http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by Zero on 11:27:2000 09:51 AM: quote: Originally posted by GameboyGTS: Yo Brandon Lee thats some good shit! I forgot all about Thor and Namor and I also for got that the Hulk and Juggy fought before silly me http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/biggrin.gif. In the Marvel Vs. DC crossover comics do you know who won between Namor and Aquaman? And who won between Spider-man and Superboy? Im guessing Namor and Spidey were the victors but Im not sure... Actually AquaMan beat Namor (rather stupidly I might add) http://www.geocities.com/kamikaze_zx/sdgeese3.gif This is Geese Howard telling you to help control the Bogard population: have your Terry maimed and murdered. Good bye, everybody! Posted by OrangeCat on 11:27:2000 09:59 AM: To Whiteboy Weltmeister Yeah I kinda agree with your post. I too love Juggy cause A) He has a kick ass character design, all aerodynamic and such, even designed like a massive tank. B) He has/had some of the coolest moves in the game, Particularly the Nail Slam in XvSF, and his head crush. C) He has the wickedest personality, just full of himself and talks the shit eveytime. However despite my love for him, (Heck I was pretty pissed that he did not return in the other VS games only to be replaced by Hulk) Hulk is better, and I accept that. Also I suppose the whole story behind Hulk's psyche and stuff isn't really appealing to you is it? He goes through some serious mind games, just battling with his inner demons, but then again most people don't associate that with the Hulk anyways. But just saying, I hear ya. Orange Cat Posted by lotusson on 11:27:2000 04:43 PM: while i still believe that the Hulk would win, TRUST ME, Juggernaut would definitely give him a run for his money. and if not for this reason and this reason alone, quote: BTW, take into account that Hulk is a good guy and a hero of a big comic series... the editors would NEVER make him loose to a secondary charatcer like Jugg. But perhaps things would be different if Jugg was the good guy and had his own series... think of it, there's a point in what I'm saying. you'd see the Juggernaut kicking alot more ass. like he just said, the Juggernaut is NOT allowed to win, atleast not on a permanat basis. it's like if Marvel allowed Doom to take over the entire planet. sure, that storyline would last a good 5-6 issues, but everything would eventually return to normal. same as with the Juggernaut, in issue 402 of the Incredible Hulk, Juggy LITERALLY BEAT the Hulk into submission (go buy the issue if you don't believe me). but just like every comic clichie, surely they wouldn't allow for the Juggernaut to win permanatly. that is why only a few issues later, Hulk returns to save the day. also, you have to consider that there are two version of the Hulk. One is the smart Hulk - he's smart but don't get stronger as the fight goes on. and dumb Hulk - who gets stronger but dumber as the fight goes on. so smart Hulk wouldn't have the instant upper hand, and dumb Hulk would just go on a mindless rampage. now the Juggernaut never changes, and his stamina GREATLY excedes the Hulks'. in the end, the Hulk would win, but not without a damn good fight. Posted by Dragos on 11:27:2000 06:59 PM: Well like lotuson says there are two versions of hulk since the only one i have seen is the dumb one since i dont read comics i guess that just trashes your "valid" answers huh roney haha. ~Jason~ http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/kenuppercut.gif Posted by Shin-Mech-Brian on 11:27:2000 10:33 PM: Well, from the Marvel vs DC comics view, Superman absolutley trashed Juggernaut and his only real competition was "Smart" Hulk. Now if Supes fought "Angry" Hulk, it might of gone the other direction. http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/m-magneto.gif "The Human Era is over... The Mutant Era has Begun!" Posted by OrangeCat on 11:28:2000 03:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by lotusson: like he just said, the Juggernaut is NOT allowed to win, atleast not on a permanat basis. it's like if Marvel allowed Doom to take over the entire planet. sure, that storyline would last a good 5-6 issues, but everything would eventually return to normal. same as with the Juggernaut, in issue 402 of the Incredible Hulk, Juggy LITERALLY BEAT the Hulk into submission (go buy the issue if you don't believe me). but just like every comic clichie, surely they wouldn't allow for the Juggernaut to win permanatly. that is why only a few issues later, Hulk returns to save the day. Actually there is an issue where Doom actually took over the world, however he gave it up since it was not the way he wanted to take over it. Or else it was boring or too easy. Besides there were times where Juggernaut won, one case being where he was pretty much at the bottom of the barrel, where he basically was trapped in the Cytorrak Gem and was about to be absorbed by the demon that gives him his power. But Juggs got a boost by some friendly magicians and tada, Juggs becomes unstoppable. Also don't forget the time that good old Doom actually tricked the devil into returning his Mother back to life. Orange Cat Posted by GameboyGTS on 11:28:2000 07:31 AM: Yo Lotusson when did this whole 2 Hulks shit start? Does he just radomly alternate between the two or what?... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by KongRong on 11:28:2000 07:48 AM: You'd think that since Hulk almost beat Cable and Storm together in the comics, he'd be able to do that in the game, but nooo... But then again, Thanos beat them all, then beat himself. Gimme that gauntlet! Posted by Zero on 11:28:2000 08:20 AM: 2 different Hulk's? There have been much more than 2 versions of Hulk! Here's all the versions that I can remember: 1) Origonal Hulk: You know, Bruce Banner, calm scientist, but when pissed, turns into Hulk, big green guy. Gets madder, gets stronger. Very low intellect. 2) Grey Hulk: Greyer Hulk, much smaller and weaker than origional. Wears a top hat and trench coat. Profession: bouncer. Juggernaut beat the shit out of this Hulk. 3) Ultimate Hulk: This is the Hulk the verses series is based on. The biggest and strongest of all Hulk's. Fusion of the personalities of Bruce Banner and Hulk; a very intellengent and arogant. 4) "Inverse Hulk": The funniest Hulk's ever! Think of the big green strong Hulk with Banner's Personality and intellect, but when he gets mad, he turns into human Bruce Banner, in a mad rage! I remember when Spider-Man fought this Hulk! What a hilarious battle! 5) Altered Hulk: Exactly like the origional Hulk, but Hulk can say complete sentences, and has access to Banner's intelect. There are most likly more versions as Hulk has been changing since the beginning. From last I saw (about 2 months ago), Hulk was back to origional Hulk. But that could have changed by now. http://www.geocities.com/kamikaze_zx/sdgeese3.gif This is Geese Howard telling you to help control the Bogard population: have your Terry maimed and murdered. Good bye, everybody! Posted by Frankie on 11:28:2000 08:30 AM: One word...Two syllables... "HEADCRUSH!" http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/ss-genjuro3.gif Go to www.GAMEGEN.com or else... Posted by OrangeCat on 11:28:2000 10:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by Zero: There are most likly more versions as Hulk has been changing since the beginning. From last I saw (about 2 months ago), Hulk was back to origional Hulk. But that could have changed by now. Shit man, Hulk is seriously going through some whackedup crap. First all, dying from a terminal disease, Banner that is. At one point he was being controlled by a tyrant who lived underground for a while. So the Tyrant had some control over the Hulk in Hulk form. And now, I think he is back to Hulk with Banner intellect, but only under the (hypnotic suggest) guise of Doc Sampson's suggestion. Really whacked Posted by Deathwind on 11:29:2000 07:13 PM: only one name, one word comes to mind, that would have the both of these, Hulk and Juggernaut, tossed aside for miles...Gladiator =) course he is alien, so if we wanna talk earth only, lets talk about spidey. Ive seen a comic in which Spidey proves he can be as strong as the rest of the bunch...a subway collapsed and he was at the bottom of it, he just held it up to get out. When spidey has to, cause of great danger, he can be one of the strongest...I guess its just that nature of "its amazing what man can do when he must" Posted by Justice Inferno on 11:29:2000 10:32 PM: Even though the Hulk is stronger than the Juggernaut, it isn't by much. While the Juggernaut is a damn sight more durable than all the forms of the Hulk and has LOADS more Stamina than the Hulk, The Juggernaut does NOT get tired. It's one the powers that the gem gives. The gem also gives him a forcefield, which is supposed to be present at all times. It protects The Juggernaut from physical harm and can only be breached by a force stronger than the magic of Cytorrak. Since the Hulk is not strong enough to break that field, this is how I see the fight going: They fight for days but the Hulk eventually gets tired, and when that happens, a fully awake and alert Juggernaut delivers the final blow. ------------------------ http://www.geocities.com/bighero6181/bunny8.gif Burn, baby burn, Justice Inferno!!! http://www.geocities.com/bighero6181/bunny8.gif http://www.geocities.com/bighero6181/bunny4.gif Swat Team training session #4221: Codename: Easter Bunny. 'We have to be prepared for anything, people.' Posted by OrangeCat on 11:29:2000 10:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by Deathwind: only one name, one word comes to mind, that would have the both of these, Hulk and Juggernaut, tossed aside for miles...Gladiator =) course he is alien, so if we wanna talk earth only, lets talk about spidey. Ive seen a comic in which Spidey proves he can be as strong as the rest of the bunch...a subway collapsed and he was at the bottom of it, he just held it up to get out. When spidey has to, cause of great danger, he can be one of the strongest...I guess its just that nature of "its amazing what man can do when he must" That is near to nothing. At one point, Spidey got SERIOUSLY down in the dumps. You know, typical should I retire, have I fought for too long, why do people get hurt with me around, etc etc. Then near the end of one issue, he held up one of the supports of the DAily Bugle. He saved that building from collapse and then put in another support, and patched it up with a little webbing here and there. Let's just say after that ordeal, he was too tired to take up Jonah's BS and he went home. Posted by Brandon Lee on 11:29:2000 10:52 PM: Look at the comic . . . and who won 9 out of 10 times? The Hulk won. And the Hulk has a healing factor, and he can regenerate over 90% of his body in seconds. So you can't really hurt him. ------------------------------------------- Listen. If you don't agree with me, I will repost this to end this debate. Stan Lee- Created the X-Men, Spiderman, and many other characters. Lee has said the reason why the has the Hulk win is because the Hulk is "better." Wizard Magazine- One of the best authorities on comics today. Said,"Since the Jugg lost to Wonder Women in All-Access Crossover and lost to Superman easily, the Hulk is better. In the Marvel Vs. DC. Crossover, the Hulk nearly had a draw with Superman before losing. The Hulk matched Superman's power much better than the Jugg did." So there you have it. The End. Posted by Brandon Lee on 11:29:2000 10:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by Deathwind: only one name, one word comes to mind, that would have the both of these, Hulk and Juggernaut, tossed aside for miles...Gladiator =) course he is alien, so if we wanna talk earth only, lets talk about spidey. Ive seen a comic in which Spidey proves he can be as strong as the rest of the bunch...a subway collapsed and he was at the bottom of it, he just held it up to get out. When spidey has to, cause of great danger, he can be one of the strongest...I guess its just that nature of "its amazing what man can do when he must" Spiderman is strong, but not upper-tier. He is supposed to have Superhuman Class 10 stength. But Spidey has shown strength much stronger than that before. The Hulk has strength over Superhuman Class 100. End of story. Posted by lotusson on 11:29:2000 11:00 PM: quote: And the Hulk has a healing factor, and he can regenerate over 90% of his body in seconds. So you can't really hurt him. Juggernaut also has a healing factor, but rarely has to rely on it. one time when Shatterstar was cutting him in peices (yes, his sword can not only cut Juggy, but anything), and Juggernaut just healed a la Wolverine style. there was also a time when Nightcrawler literally teleported him into the solid ground... he gets right back up. and people wonder why Juggernaut loses...IT BECAUSE HE HAS TOO. he is the villian afterall. that's what they do, lose. [This message has been edited by lotusson (edited 11-29-2000).] Posted by Shin-Mech-Brian on 11:29:2000 11:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by Deathwind: only one name, one word comes to mind, that would have the both of these, Hulk and Juggernaut, tossed aside for miles...Gladiator =) course he is alien, so if we wanna talk earth only, lets talk about spidey. Ive seen a comic in which Spidey proves he can be as strong as the rest of the bunch...a subway collapsed and he was at the bottom of it, he just held it up to get out. When spidey has to, cause of great danger, he can be one of the strongest...I guess its just that nature of "its amazing what man can do when he must" I'm sorry to say this but Gladiator's got nothing anymore ever since he got beaten down by Cannonball. Yup, you heard me right, Cannonball aka Samuel Guthrie of the X-Men/X-Force. It was sometime lastyear in an issue of X-Men and Cannonball kicked his ass all over the place. http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/m-magneto.gif "The Human Era is over... The Mutant Era has Begun!" Posted by Zero on 11:29:2000 11:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by Shin-Mech-Brian: [B] I'm sorry to say this but Gladiator's got nothing anymore ever since he got beaten down by Cannonball. Yup, you heard me right, Cannonball aka Samuel Guthrie of the X-Men/X-Force. It was sometime lastyear in an issue of X-Men and Cannonball kicked his ass all over the place. [B] CANNONBALL!? Okay, I know that Gladiator got punkified over the years, but CANNONBALL!? Well, there goes another of Shiar's finest into the ever-growing Marvel shit-pile. http://www.geocities.com/kamikaze_zx/sdgeese3.gif This is Geese Howard telling you to help control the Bogard population: have your Terry maimed and murdered. Good bye, everybody! Posted by Shin-Mech-Brian on 11:29:2000 11:43 PM: quote: Originally posted by Zero: 2 different Hulk's? There have been much more than 2 versions of Hulk! Here's all the versions that I can remember: 1) Origonal Hulk: You know, Bruce Banner, calm scientist, but when pissed, turns into Hulk, big green guy. Gets madder, gets stronger. Very low intellect. 2) Grey Hulk: Greyer Hulk, much smaller and weaker than origional. Wears a top hat and trench coat. Profession: bouncer. Juggernaut beat the shit out of this Hulk. 3) Ultimate Hulk: This is the Hulk the verses series is based on. The biggest and strongest of all Hulk's. Fusion of the personalities of Bruce Banner and Hulk; a very intellengent and arogant. 4) "Inverse Hulk": The funniest Hulk's ever! Think of the big green strong Hulk with Banner's Personality and intellect, but when he gets mad, he turns into human Bruce Banner, in a mad rage! I remember when Spider-Man fought this Hulk! What a hilarious battle! 5) Altered Hulk: Exactly like the origional Hulk, but Hulk can say complete sentences, and has access to Banner's intelect. There are most likly more versions as Hulk has been changing since the beginning. From last I saw (about 2 months ago), Hulk was back to origional Hulk. But that could have changed by now. I don't if this version counts but there's Future Imperfect Hulk also, where he pretty much killed all the Marvel Super Heroes and ruled America. http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/m-magneto.gif "The Human Era is over... The Mutant Era has Begun!" Posted by Pryde on 11:29:2000 11:48 PM: Hulk is the strongest there is and he even has better speed! Posted by lotusson on 11:30:2000 12:05 AM: quote: I'm sorry to say this but Gladiator's got nothing anymore ever since he got beaten down by Cannonball. Yup, you heard me right, Cannonball aka Samuel Guthrie of the X-Men/X-Force. It was sometime lastyear in an issue of X-Men and Cannonball kicked his ass all over the place. yes, i actually have that issue. Gladiator literally hit Cannonball with everything he got and he took hit. sadly, i don't think much of Gladiator anymore. Posted by Zero on 11:30:2000 12:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Shin-Mech-Brian: [B] I don't if this version counts but there's Future Imperfect Hulk also, where he pretty much killed all the Marvel Super Heroes and ruled America. [B] You mean The Miestro(sp)? I didn't include him because he's an Alternate/possible universe Hulk. I was referring to actuall Hulk's that have existed in the main Marvel time line. http://www.geocities.com/kamikaze_zx/sdgeese3.gif This is Geese Howard telling you to help control the Bogard population: have your Terry maimed and murdered. Good bye, everybody! Posted by norielX on 11:30:2000 03:08 AM: Hulk! Juggs caught him off guard one time when he wasn't wearing his suit, but Hulk usually whipps the Juggernaut. Oh, and I love that bit about Thor and Namor. Those are two of my other favorite characters. Hercules is a fairy, I have to add... http://www.geocities.com/norielx/xbanner2.gif norielX@yahoo.com Posted by Jinsogood on 11:30:2000 03:18 AM: Hulk K.O.ed Jugg in one punch. Hulk strong, Jugg weak. Some guy keeps saying that Jugg "would" win. They have fought, Hulk wins almost every time. Even Juggernaughts, I run at you and I can't be stopped attack, was defeated by the Hulk. Hulk stopped Juggernaught. Tired about hearing about his massive rage powers? Well Im tired of you saying jugg would win, then not supporting your stupid arguement. Posted by Brandon Lee on 11:30:2000 08:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinsogood: Hulk K.O.ed Jugg in one punch. Hulk strong, Jugg weak. Some guy keeps saying that Jugg "would" win. They have fought, Hulk wins almost every time. Even Juggernaughts, I run at you and I can't be stopped attack, was defeated by the Hulk. Hulk stopped Juggernaught. Tired about hearing about his massive rage powers? Well Im tired of you saying jugg would win, then not supporting your stupid arguement. Amen, roger that. I want somebody to name the comics in which the Jugg won. I'm waiting. . . Posted by Zero on 11:30:2000 11:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by norielX: Hulk! Juggs caught him off guard one time when he wasn't wearing his suit, but Hulk usually whipps the Juggernaut. Oh, and I love that bit about Thor and Namor. Those are two of my other favorite characters. Hercules is a fairy, I have to add... <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/norielx/xbanner2.gif"> norielX@yahoo.com By the way, don't get me wrong. Although I meantioned that Juggy beat Grey Hulk (and you're right, Juggy caught Hulk off guard), I never said that Juggy can beat the Hulk. I don't know if you were implying me as a person who thinks Juggy has it over Hulk, but if you were, I'm not. I've been staying away from stating my opinion on this just because I was more interester in dishing out comic info (and hopefully learning a few things along the way). http://www.geocities.com/kamikaze_zx/sdgeese3.gif This is Geese Howard telling you to help control the Bogard population: have your Terry maimed and murdered. Good bye, everybody! Posted by Gatts on 11:30:2000 05:36 PM: I believe there was another form of Hulk that was Banner at Night and Hulk during the day... or was it the other way around? Anyway, I wonder what Synch or Chamber could do with Hulk or Jugg's power? http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif I'm sure neither of them would like to be tossed around by a couple of kids. http://www.geocities.com/sdgatts/pics/gatts.jpg Posted by Zero on 11:30:2000 10:25 PM: quote: Originally posted by Gatts: I believe there was another form of Hulk that was Banner at Night and Hulk during the day... or was it the other way around? Anyway, I wonder what Synch or Chamber could do with Hulk or Jugg's power? http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif I'm sure neither of them would like to be tossed around by a couple of kids. <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/sdgatts/pics/gatts.jpg"> Yeah, I know of this Hulk. I forgot to meantion that one. As for Synch and Chamber, I doubt if they could handle the likes of Hulk and Juggy. Maybe Chamber when he gets out of his damn depression and harnesses the full potential of his powers. Synch would have to be able to get close enough to Synch with either of the two without getting knocked into the stratasphere. http://www.geocities.com/kamikaze_zx/sdgeese3.gif This is Geese Howard telling you to help control the Bogard population: have your Terry maimed and murdered. Good bye, everybody! Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:01:2000 07:24 AM: Thanks yall! Ive learn a lot of shit from this thread! I need to get back into comics cuz I didnt even know about all of these Hulks... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by KungfuJoe on 12:01:2000 07:45 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: This battle has happened 100s of times already. The Hulk usually wins. Why? The Hulk is stronger, has a better healing factor, is much smarter, and unlike the Juggernaut, the Hulk's power keeps increasing during the course of fights. The more angry the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets. And that means trouble. The Hulk, when fully pissed off, has punched his foes so hard, they fly out into outer space. And guess what? Those enemies were never seen again. The Juggernaut only has his Super Charge going for him. But the Hulk can easily dodge the attack. In fact, the Hulk is more agile than the Jugg. Plus, the Hulk has way more fighting experience than the Juggernaut and fights with more strategy than the Juggernaut. Ask Wizard Magazine, Stan Lee, Marvel Comics, or even ask some comic geeks this question. The Hulk is much stronger, much stronger. It is a documented Marvel Fact that the Hulk is Marvel's strongest character. It is a fact that these two characters are stronger than the Juggernaut: Thor (a God, been fighting for over 10,000 years) and Namor (who can trade punches with the Hulk, something the Jugg can't do for a long period of time). The Jugg is tight, but not on the Hulk's level. Although the Hulk lost in a cross-over fight to Superman, it still shows how powerful the Hulk is. The Juggernaut is not on that level. The Juggernaut was beat by Wonder Woman in the All Access Cross-Over Series. So do the math. If he can't take her, then Superman would trash the Juggernaut. Peace. yep this battle happen alot, however the winner is more determine by the writer not the reader. It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is dumber. Posted by OrangeCat on 12:01:2000 08:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: Amen, roger that. I want somebody to name the comics in which the Jugg won. I'm waiting. . . Against the Hulk or just winning in general? Cause for winning in general I could see two instances. One where Juggs joined a superhero team for a few issues, and then it got canned. And another during the onslaght Saga where he defeated the demon Cyttorak in order to get out of the gem. Orange Cat Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:01:2000 10:10 AM: Ok, I gotta get in on this. Now i must admit before I begin, that I am somewhat of a Hulk fanboy, so my opinion may be a bit biased, but I will try to support it with hard fact. First & foremost I must remind everyone that the reason superman beat hulk in the amalgam crossovers was that the winner was determined by fan votes. And who among us actually believes that Hulk will ever be more popular than superman? Also, about this whole deal with the fact that juggy is not allowed to win because he's a second rate character, this is absolutely true, but the fact is, the character is determined by the writer, & because they do not actually exist that is all we can base our judgement on. If the juggernaut is written & cast as a second rate character then that is exactly what he would be if the two were to actually fight. He would lack the fighting spirit, intellect, cunning, & power the Hulk has. Now on to other matters: For those who don't know, the Hulk's most recent incarnation from "official sources", (meaning marvel comics), is that he has taken the best of all of his previous forms. Including: The unlimited capacity for strength of his dumb green form. The cunning & cruelty of the grey form. The intellect & spirit of banner. And the ability to change form at will Most things have already been said. Juggy DID lose to Onslaught's first form while Hulk went toe to toe with, & beat, Onslaught's final form. Hulk has stopped Jugg's charging before. Hulk has beaten intergalactic foes that Juggy couldn't handle before. The perfect exampple has already been mentioned... Gladiator. Now first of all, let me say that Gladiator's powers are based on his own confidence. This means that the more confidence he has in himself the stronger he is. This is why cannonball beat him. Gladiator hit him with all his might & cannonball used his blast field to absorb the impact, & then when Gladiator lost confidence in himself cannonball returned that power back on him. Now another account has Gladiator wailing on the Juggernaut. As I recall he beat him down & then threw him across an island in europe. Hulk however, managed to beat Gladiator in a toe to toe battle of strength, & in a weakened state I might add (Hulk was weakened that is). Now since we all know Hulk has beaten Juggy down many times I won't bring that up any more than I already have. The last thing I want to address is the theoretical aspect everyone likes to bring up. That is, the fact that Juggy supposedly never tires, never feels pain (only impact), or gets injured, & Hulk supposedly has no upper limit of power, never tires, & can heal any wound. Now if we assume these things are true for one character then we must logically assume them for the other. So I'll say right now that I'm assuming they are true. That said the battle would proceed something like this: They would trade blows back & forth, niether tiring, Juggy not even necessarily feeling the blows at first & Hulk healing every injury, while his power steadily & exponentially increases. After a while Hulk would be so strong that the Juggernaut's blows would have no effect & while he may still not be able to injure or kill the Juggernaut, (that remains to be seen so I won't make any assumptions on that matter), he would still be able to beat him mercilessly, bat him around like a rag doll, restrain him, or whatever. The conclusion I am attempting to draw in this situation is that while theoretically, if all implications are true, there could be no final victor, (meaning death or unconsciousness or whatever), in all the ways that truly count, Hulk would eventually take presedence over Juggy & come out the victor. Now as I stated before, I am sure I'm somewhat biased, but I tried to leave opinion out of my argument. As many may recall we had this same discussion over at F.net a while back & I gave much the same argument there as I did here. Basically, the writer's at marvel designed Hulk to be THE perfect fighter. Call it "childish", or whatever other adjective you want to assign to it, but it's the truth. Now in closing, people who don't like what I've had to say are certainly entitled to their opinion, & have every right to state it. It would be nice if they backed it up with fact, but none of us can say that's necessary. Please keep an open mind. P.S.- For those of you who want to call me a "fanboy", or a comic "nerd", or whatever other name you want to include I say this: To properly & intelligently support any side of an argument, no matter what the topic, you must have all the information or you're just spittin in the wind. So stick that in your pipe & smoke it. http://63.92.61.161/forums/wink.gif My time is coming... Posted by DarthSalamander on 12:01:2000 11:02 AM: Is there anyone who can actually beat the Hulk in the Marvel Universe? Also how did Superman manage to beat the Hulk if he has no limits to his strength, since it seems a beatdown by Supes would just piss Hulk off and then would he come back meaner than before. quote: Originally posted by TeamDan: It's simple. Dan is the solution to everything. I mean, Dan is the best character in the game. It's really not arguable. http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by Gatts on 12:01:2000 01:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander: Is there anyone who can actually beat the Hulk in the Marvel Universe? Also how did Superman manage to beat the Hulk if he has no limits to his strength, since it seems a beatdown by Supes would just piss Hulk off and then would he come back meaner than before. There are plenty of people who can kill/maim Hulk, but there aren't any that I can think of who can beat him in a straight up fight outside of the gods (Namor, Thor, etc) even then it would be a rumble. The reason why Superman won his fight was because it was a popularity contest. Superman got more votes than Hulk so he won. BS like that has happened more than once. I fact during the same crossover, Wolverine beat Lobo (more BS, but I'll let it slide). Cross overs, Elseworlds, What If's and alternate Universes should be mostly ignored for comic book fights (which is why Future Imperfect Hulk shouldn't be included either). BTW, Zero I know both kids would lose in a fight against either Juggernaut or the Hulk. I just thought it would be funny to see. http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif http://www.geocities.com/sdgatts/pics/gatts.jpg Posted by lotusson on 12:01:2000 09:13 PM: Okay, time for another comic nerd to step in. http://63.92.61.161/forums/biggrin.gif I know the crossover series where Superman beat Hulk was based on fan votes, but lets be serious. Superman would take the Hulk down either way. If you want to mix and match which version of the Hulk you want to throw up against Supey, then how about old Superman vs ANY Hulk. The old could literally move planets with his bare hands if he wanted too. He was so strong that DC intentially powered him down just to make the comic more fesable. That version of Superman would take out anyone. Now, the Superman we have now would still take down damn near anyone. For starters, I don't believe that at the start of the match that the Hulk would be stronger. And I doubt if he'd have the time to get stronger. From the get go Supes would be kicking ass and wouldn't let up. Now, on the ground the Hulk has a fairly good chance. But when you toss Supes heat vision and the ability to fly at super sonic speeds (in not just flying, but all around), the Hulk becomes hopelessly outmatched. Supes could get in 4-5 blows even before Hulk even got one. The Hulk would probably get stronger as the fight goes on, but I don't see that fight lasting too long anyway. The winner - Supes The Lobo vs Wolverine fight...why the hell did they even fight??? They have nothing in common anyway. I believe that that fight should have went to Lobo, but if Wolverine had his metal claws, he would have beat Lobo to the ground. (personal rant http://63.92.61.161/forums/wink.gif) The Quicksilver vs the Flash fight should have never happened. I like Quicksilver infinitly than Flash, but even I know he had a zero chance of defeating him. That just made Quicksilver look bad. As for a Gladiator vs Juggy fight, I see Juggy taking this in the end. Assuming they fight to the end. Sure, Gladiator may be able to toss Juggy away and get a cheap win. But what if the fight goes on? So much for Gladiator. Remember, the Juggernaut never (I'll have proof later) tires, so as the fight goes on, Gladiator's confidence leve would drop and drop. With each blow, he would watch Juggy get right back up. And just like that Cannonball and Gladiator fight. After Glad. had given Juggy all there is to give, he would just have no confidence left. Then it's open season for Juggy. Here's the proof that I was talking about that Juggy never tires. Not to long ago (like two years), Juggy had a one-shot written by none other than Joe Kelly himself (my fav writer). So, blah blah blah, he gets in a fight with D'Spayre. During the issue, D'Spayre absorbed nearly all of Juggy's powers and then precedded to blast away on him. It was like this, since D'Spayre had so much of Juggy's powers, he became pretty damn strong. And after all those blast, with hardly any amount of power left, Juggy was still standing. The amazing thing was, Juggy's force field was lost along with most of his power, so he took every blast head on. After all that, he was just a pile of bones. Just a skeleton walking around. And with that little bit of power that didn't get absorbed, he fought on. So, blah blah blah, D'Spayre's sister jumps in, blah blah blah, they win, blah blah blah, D'Spayre's sister restores Juggy to his full power as thanks for helping defeat her brother. So no matter what you think of Juggy, you have to give him credit for the fact that he will always keep going. Assuming of course said writer doesn't screw him over on his powers as so many do. Basically, when they realized that Juggy was too strong for just an X-Men villian, they powered him down. The sell outs. Now, back to the Juggy Hulk fight. If you did read the Fighters.net thread Unmei no Sentaku, then you remember that we basically came to the same conclusion. That if BOTH characters were written the way they were original designed then....While it would be a pretty good match up at first, the Hulk would just overpower Juggy as the fight went on. But being that Juggy never tires, no matter what the Hulk hit him with, Juggy would get right back up. So the Hulk would always have the upper hand, but the fight would never end. If they were written the way they are written now (all crappy), then it's Hulk all the way. But it would still be a damn good fight. Funny, I belong to a comic book forum and not even the discussions there are this good. The One, The only One -The Lotus One ------------------ http://www.cammyfan.com/Capcom/sf-animation/pics/mika-frc-crch.gif Posted by Iceman on 12:01:2000 09:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by lotusson: Okay, time for another comic nerd to step in. http://63.92.61.161/forums/biggrin.gif I know the crossover series where Superman beat Hulk was based on fan votes, but lets be serious. Superman would take the Hulk down either way. If you want to mix and match which version of the Hulk you want to throw up against Supey, then how about old Superman vs ANY Hulk. The old could literally move planets with his bare hands if he wanted too. He was so strong that DC intentially powered him down just to make the comic more fesable. That version of Superman would take out anyone. Now, the Superman we have now would still take down damn near anyone. For starters, I don't believe that at the start of the match that the Hulk would be stronger. And I doubt if he'd have the time to get stronger. From the get go Supes would be kicking ass and wouldn't let up. Now, on the ground the Hulk has a fairly good chance. But when you toss Supes heat vision and the ability to fly at super sonic speeds (in not just flying, but all around), the Hulk becomes hopelessly outmatched. Supes could get in 4-5 blows even before Hulk even got one. The Hulk would probably get stronger as the fight goes on, but I don't see that fight lasting too long anyway. The winner - Supes The Lobo vs Wolverine fight...[b]why the hell did they even fight??? They have nothing in common anyway. I believe that that fight should have went to Lobo, but if Wolverine had his metal claws, he would have beat Lobo to the ground. (personal rant http://63.92.61.161/forums/wink.gif) The Quicksilver vs the Flash fight should have never happened. I like Quicksilver infinitly than Flash, but even I know he had a zero chance of defeating him. That just made Quicksilver look bad. As for a Gladiator vs Juggy fight, I see Juggy taking this in the end. Assuming they fight to the end. Sure, Gladiator may be able to toss Juggy away and get a cheap win. But what if the fight goes on? So much for Gladiator. Remember, the Juggernaut never (I'll have proof later) tires, so as the fight goes on, Gladiator's confidence leve would drop and drop. With each blow, he would watch Juggy get right back up. And just like that Cannonball and Gladiator fight. After Glad. had given Juggy all there is to give, he would just have no confidence left. Then it's open season for Juggy. Here's the proof that I was talking about that Juggy never tires. Not to long ago (like two years), Juggy had a one-shot written by none other than Joe Kelly himself (my fav writer). So, blah blah blah, he gets in a fight with D'Spayre. During the issue, D'Spayre absorbed nearly all of Juggy's powers and then precedded to blast away on him. It was like this, since D'Spayre had so much of Juggy's powers, he became pretty damn strong. And after all those blast, with hardly any amount of power left, Juggy was still standing. The amazing thing was, Juggy's force field was lost along with most of his power, so he took every blast head on. After all that, he was just a pile of bones. Just a skeleton walking around. And with that little bit of power that didn't get absorbed, he fought on. So, blah blah blah, D'Spayre's sister jumps in, blah blah blah, they win, blah blah blah, D'Spayre's sister restores Juggy to his full power as thanks for helping defeat her brother. So no matter what you think of Juggy, you have to give him credit for the fact that he will always keep going. Assuming of course said writer doesn't screw him over on his powers as so many do. Basically, when they realized that Juggy was too strong for just an X-Men villian, they powered him down. The sell outs. Now, back to the Juggy Hulk fight. If you did read the Fighters.net thread Unmei no Sentaku, then you remember that we basically came to the same conclusion. That if BOTH characters were written the way they were original designed then....While it would be a pretty good match up at first, the Hulk would just overpower Juggy as the fight went on. But being that Juggy never tires, no matter what the Hulk hit him with, Juggy would get right back up. So the Hulk would always have the upper hand, but the fight would never end. If they were written the way they are written now (all crappy), then it's Hulk all the way. But it would still be a damn good fight. Funny, I belong to a comic book forum and not even the discussions there are this good. The One, The only One -The Lotus One This response sounds the most logical to me. But what can I say. I like Iron Man, and a bunch of "weak" X-men (Gambit, Nightcrawler, Iceman, Archangel). Posted by lotusson on 12:01:2000 10:25 PM: quote: This response sounds the most logical to me. But what can I say. I like Iron Man, and a bunch of "weak" X-men (Gambit, Nightcrawler, Iceman, Archangel). Hell yeah baby. Everyone knows that Nightcrawler is the shit among shits. And when speaking of comparison of how strong the Juggernaut is compared to the Hulk. If you check here, then you'd see that Juggy can lift well over 100 tons. Now go here and you'll see that the Hulk starts off below 100 tons and works himself up to it. And the same goes for just about every form he has. So even if both were written in the comics as they are now, it would be a better fight then I thought. Also, speaking of Jugg's healing factore. He was once stapped in the eye by Shatterstar (with his sword that can cut anything), and instantly healed from the wound. [This message has been edited by lotusson (edited 12-01-2000).] Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:01:2000 11:32 PM: You know after Juggie defeated the demon cytorrrak to escape the gem. He absorbed the gem into himself. Juggie became the gem. Juggie now is WAYYY more powerful than he was before. He really should be about Curse ( a old Thor enemy) strength level. Which was about 400 tons. Hell even before the whole Onslaught thing the only two times i had ever seen Jug fight Thor. Thor won by a)encasing juggie in a block of melted down steel then DIMENSIONALLY teleporting him to another plane b)using his hammers power to neutralize magic, which depowered juggie enough for others to beat him. But at the cost of losing his own while it happened and almost killing himself. Face facts juggie by his actual original files. Not the "some new writer decided to neuter him files" is only vulnerable to magic. Which is why shatterstar was able to actually cut him his swords were mystic. Like has been said Juggie looses because hes the villain. He doesnt tire, hulk really can't hurt him because of the shield and his own invulnerablities to everything but magic. He doesnt breath doesnt need food. You can hurt him psychically but you need to get his helmet off(the only way the X-men ever beat him). Now considering that juggie is only hurt by magic. How the hell does Onslaught beat Juggie? Magnetism(which they've shown has no effect on juggie) and Telepathy combined, WTF. Thats like how Wolverine gut punched Wonder Man and floored him. Because the writers needed Onslaught to make a big splash. They neeeded someone for him to beat on a juggie got picked. Hulk was pure and simple raging mad. If Onslaught had actually fought hulk one on one Hulk would have lost worst than Juggie. But Hulk's a hero so he has people backing him up. Hulk didnt walk up and hit Onslaught, Banner in desperation released raging hulk in the fight. When Shatterstar stabbed Juggie in the eye, his eye was healed in a couple panels. Juggie has a healing factor close enough to hulk's after all the other things pushes him way over the mark in terms of winning the fight versus Hulk. If they were both put on a level field, ie neither of them being the hero or the villain. Then their is no way for Hulk to beat juggie. I love Hulk but remember peeps. JUGGERNAUT dont drink light BEER..... "I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool." Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:01:2000 11:50 PM: Gambit is not weak. Check his powers: Agility: Superhuman. Has dodged bullets, heat-seeking missiles, lasers, and all these were dodged at point blank range. Super Senses: Superhuman. Has displayed exceedingly strong resistance to psychic attacks and has cloaked himself mentally from pyschic detection. His red eyes allow him perfect vision in total pitch black darkness. Kinetic Charge: Energy is charged into animate and inanimate objects. Gambit can charge human flesh and all the objects in his surroundings. In a recent upgrade, Gambit can now charge objects just by staring at them. Thus, Gambit can kill with just a look of his eyes. Gambit's kinetic charge is hyperactive, thus enabling him to blow up any object in just a mere matter of seconds. Plus- Marital Arts: Trained in New Orleans the Assasins style of fighting. Gambit is trained to kill. Also, at the X-Mansion, Gambit was trained again in martial arts. Gambit is a master with his staff. He is so skilled, that he disarms master swordsmen with ease, and even deflects bullets on a regular basis with his staff. Also, Gambit can charge his staff, for increased power. Bottom Line: Gambit's kinetic energy is so strong, he has hurt invulernable character like Rogue, Colossus (in bio-metal form), and the Juggernaut. So if charged with enough power, Gambit can hurt anybody. I am not saying Gambit is on the Hulk's or Jugg's level. Hell no! I am just saying Gambit isn't weak. Posted by Zero on 12:02:2000 12:20 AM: I've been in quite a few Juggy vs. Hulk discussions, and this had been the most intreguing one yet. I agree with you whole heartedly on your Juggy vs. Hulk scenario, Unmei no Sentaku. And thanks for meantioning that that Marvel vs. DC thing was vote-based. That would explain some of the stupid wins that occured, like how Namor lost to Aqua-Man and how BatMan beat Captain America. quote: Gatts said: The reason why Superman won his fight was because it was a popularity contest. Superman got more votes than Hulk so he won. BS like that has happened more than once. I fact during the same crossover, Wolverine beat Lobo (more BS, but I'll let it slide). Cross overs, Elseworlds, What If's and alternate Universes should be mostly ignored for comic book fights (which is why Future Imperfect Hulk shouldn't be included either). BTW, Zero I know both kids would lose in a fight against either Juggernaut or the Hulk. I just thought it would be funny to see. As much as I hate Superman, the fact that he CAN beat Hulk is not as as rediculas as you think. I don't know how he beat Hulk in the crossover (I missed that part), but if SuperMan used his super speed to dodge Hulk's attacks and was able to grab a hold of Hulk and throw him into outer space (where he would sufficate), the fight would be Sups. I'm not saying SuperMan can beat Hulk (at least the current SuperMan, anyway), but if SuperMan used his brains (for once) it could be done. quote: quote: This response sounds the most logical to me. But what can I say. I like Iron Man, and a bunch of "weak" X-men (Gambit, Nightcrawler, Iceman, Archangel). Brandon Lee already gave the reasons why Gambit is not weak (which I agree with). But another character you labeled as weak, that I disagree with is Iceman. Thanks to White Queen, Iceman has become one of the hardest people to kill. With the ability to turn himself completly into ice in ice mode, as long as he stays in Ice mode, he can only truly be killed in a cosmic or telepathic level, as long as their is moisture in the air. He can also now freeze things to absolute zero very quickly. quote: lotusson:Hell yeah baby. Everyone knows that Nightcrawler is the shit among shits. Damn straight. Nightcrawler rules the fucking Earth. http://www.geocities.com/kamikaze_zx/sdgeese3.gif This is Geese Howard telling you to help control the Bogard population: have your Terry maimed and murdered. Good bye, everybody! Posted by Gambit on 12:02:2000 01:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: Gambit is not weak. Check his powers: Agility: Superhuman. Has dodged bullets, heat-seeking missiles, lasers, and all these were dodged at point blank range. Super Senses: Superhuman. Has displayed exceedingly strong resistance to psychic attacks and has cloaked himself mentally from pyschic detection. His red eyes allow him perfect vision in total pitch black darkness. Kinetic Charge: Energy is charged into animate and inanimate objects. Gambit can charge human flesh and all the objects in his surroundings. In a recent upgrade, Gambit can now charge objects just by staring at them. Thus, Gambit can kill with just a look of his eyes. Gambit's kinetic charge is hyperactive, thus enabling him to blow up any object in just a mere matter of seconds. Plus- Marital Arts: Trained in New Orleans the Assasins style of fighting. Gambit is trained to kill. Also, at the X-Mansion, Gambit was trained again in martial arts. Gambit is a master with his staff. He is so skilled, that he disarms master swordsmen with ease, and even deflects bullets on a regular basis with his staff. Also, Gambit can charge his staff, for increased power. Bottom Line: Gambit's kinetic energy is so strong, he has hurt invulernable character like Rogue, Colossus (in bio-metal form), and the Juggernaut. So if charged with enough power, Gambit can hurt anybody. I am not saying Gambit is on the Hulk's or Jugg's level. Hell no! I am just saying Gambit isn't weak. Heh... *Gambit grins a 7 inch wide grin* -Gambit, of Fighters.net fame. Posted by DarthSalamander on 12:02:2000 01:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Gatts: There are plenty of people who can kill/maim Hulk, but there aren't any that I can think of who can beat him in a straight up fight outside of the gods (Namor, Thor, etc) even then it would be a rumble. Like who? I;m just curious because I never read the Hul comics and it sounds like with any villian it just be a matter of how soon the Hulk could A) Smash B) Throw into space C) Get really pissed off or D) All of the above. Also how storng is Namor, since I know he fights Captain America, and I would think captain America couldn't beat down Hulk. quote: Originally posted by TeamDan: It's simple. Dan is the solution to everything. I mean, Dan is the best character in the game. It's really not arguable. http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by lotusson on 12:02:2000 01:40 AM: quote: JUGGERNAUT dont drink light BEER..... I loved that ending. http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif Posted by Shin-Mech-Brian on 12:02:2000 04:00 AM: Jumping into this one a bit late again but I've been reading comics for about 20 years and Hulk has always been Marvel's main muscle. He's been through so much crap with other heroes and super villians and he's beaten virtually all of them as long as Banner's mind didn't interfere in someway. And as much as people like to say Juggernaut is invincible, is true and not so true. No, I don't think he's ever been beaten down except by Onslaught but he's been stopped so many times it's ridiculous. Spider-Man X-Men X-Force New Mutants Avengers Deadpool (twice) Fantastic Four... Again, this doesn't mean he's been actually defeated, just re-routed in another direction. We can't make the actual decision as to who could toppel who in a Hulk vs Juggernaut fight because it's highly unlikely, any of us will ever become a writer for Marvel Comics or ever be in the situation to create this fight. Fact is, Marvel will probably never write a story where these two will duke it out until Hulk stops. One question though, what's the weight eqivilentcy (not sure on spelling) of what Juggernaut can lift? I mean, has any story ever illustrated Juggernaut stopping/lifting anything more impressive than the Hulk? Yeah, someone said 100 tons but I still have flashbacks to Marvel SecretWars back around '84 when Dr.Doom dropped an entire mountain range on top of our heroes and Hulk was the only one supporting the weight. Colossus and Thing were both unconcious so there's no help there and I'm quite sure the size of that mountain far exceeded 100 tons. Just curious, I've been out of the comicbook loop for about three years now... <IMG SRC="http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/m-spidey.gif"> When Tampon Strings go bad... [This message has been edited by Shin-Mech-Brian (edited 12-01-2000).] Posted by lotusson on 12:02:2000 06:10 AM: I've seen Juggy listed inbetween 90-100 tons. And Hulk usually at 70-80 tons and can work his way up to 100. Just check the links that I posted above. As for the mountain. In comparison, Thing isn't as strong as the Hulk, but a MUCH better fighter. That's why he was always able to stand his ground with him. But fighting and lifting a mountain are two seperate things. Posted by lotusson on 12:02:2000 06:16 AM: and as for the Juggy/Onslaught thing. It's said that Onslaught didn't beat Juggy into the ground, merely tossed him from like Canada to New Jersey. And while that didn't put Juggy down for the count, it left him a little jarred up since that has never happened to him before. Now that Hulk weighs about 100 pounds more than Juggy (Juggy 900 ilbs, Hulk 1000), but the same thing could happen to the Hulk. However, being the hero that he is, it will never happen to the Hulk. Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:02:2000 07:55 AM: "WOW what a good topic you have made Brian" says me just as cocky as can be. HA HA HA! Anyways thanks for all of the info I have been out of the Hulk loop for years and learned a lot from your responses. BTW Namor is soo fuckin strong (I dont exactly know how strong though) and since when is Namor a god? Has he been upgraded or something? I must know cuz Namor is my n*gga! --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by OrangeCat on 12:02:2000 09:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by Sword_Saint: Now considering that juggie is only hurt by magic. How the hell does Onslaught beat Juggie? Magnetism(which they've shown has no effect on juggie) and Telepathy combined, WTF. Thats like how Wolverine gut punched Wonder Man and floored him. Because the writers needed Onslaught to make a big splash. They neeeded someone for him to beat on a juggie got picked. Hulk was pure and simple raging mad. If Onslaught had actually fought hulk one on one Hulk would have lost worst than Juggie. But Hulk's a hero so he has people backing him up. "I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool." I don't know, I think I have a theory to that. I mean Onslaught was so powerful that his powers even surpassed that of Magic maybe. I mean even that stone guy in Egypt who carves out the furture was scared by Onslaught. Plus Onslaught was probably powerful enough, to rip out the Gen from Juggy's heart, body whatever and imprision him in it. But it's kinda funny though, on a side note, if you take the D'Spyre storyline. They said that Juggs stood alive and well even with all his flesh melted off, cause he couldn't tire. If I could recollect, I think D'Spyre questioned him "How can you possibly still be standing" and Juggs replies: "Because of my HATE." If you reference that to Onlaught's being which stems from Magnetos hate embedded into Prof X's psyche, it could have been much more powerful than Juggy's since Juggy is battling the hatred of his brother and father. Whereas Prof X is battling racism against the species of mutants. Also at that point of Juggs Onslaught confrontation, Juggs actually wanted to save his Brother from Harm, and what do you ,know? RIIIIP! Of course I would have believed the storyline, but thanks to Sword Saint for pointing that out. However I still would have believed the storyline if Onslaught appropriated Ben Richards in first and then hurt Juggs. Orange Cat Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:02:2000 10:35 AM: Lotusson: I do remember the F.net thread because I'm Remy from those forums & I was the one who said those things. http://63.92.61.161/forums/wink.gif As to some of the other things: Namor is not a god & Hulk has put him down multiple times before. Also, Hulk has beaten thor SEVERAL times in a clean fight. I can think of 3 off the top of my head. The one that sticks out most in my mind is one where Hulk mauled Thor so bad that Thor was laying hunched over at his feet & Hulk just got bored with the fight & left. Next, I still do not believe Superman could beat Hulk. He may have all those other powers but there is no way he's as strong as Hulk. Now I believe someone said that Supes used to be able to move planets. Can you prove to me that Hulk can't? He's never had that kind of an opportunity. And you forget, Hulk has ways of attacking from a distance as well. He can create shockwaves, sonic booms, throw things faster than the speed of a high caliber bullet, etc. etc. Frankly, if you really think about it Hulk is the marvel equivalent of Doomsday. Not only is he massively physically powerful, but he can adapt to beat any opponent. Now the only difference here is that Doomsday would spcifically adapt to each individual thing thrown at him, whereas Hulk's form of adaptation is to grow in strength & durability until he is stronger than what is being thrown at him. Thus I personally think that the fight would go much the way it did with supes vs. doomsday, with the exception that Hulk would be able to heal himself, instead of having to be killed & then come back to life. And if you'll recall, the way superman works is that his invulnerability & stamina is based on a field created around him by the solar energy he has absorbed. Now the reason he lost to Doomsday was because he fought so fiercely for so long that supes' solar energy ran out & he was then vulnerable to attack. That sounds to me like exactly what would happen if he battled Hulk. Basically all I'm saying is that Hulk's power, at least the way he is officially written, is truly limitless. And I admitted before that if one was to truly take the writing of the 2 characters at face value it is highly unlikely that there is anyway Hulk could kill juggy, but he could most assuredly beat him down. Also, Hulk has in fact stopped Juggy in the middle of one of his charges, not just redirected him, stopped him in his tracks. Now for those of you who are true comic book historians you may remember the time many years back when Hulk shouldered the entire island of manhattan! I can't find the issue right now, but it was quite a while back. Regarding Onslaught, if we look at it objectively, it is obvious what happened. Juggy got mauled by Onslaught's first form. His gem was PHYSICALLY ripped from his chest, he was hurled half way across the continent, & ended up in a coma for 3 weeks. And Onslaught NEVER had ANY mystical powers. The Hulk however, did in fact walk up & go toe to toe with Onslaught's most powerful form & PHYSICALLY beat him into submission. I mean he hit him so hard it caused a nuclear explosion for cripes sake!!! And that reminds me of another thing, who says that mystical power is stronger than biological power? This seems to be a generally assumed fact, but can anyone offer any direct indication to back that up? I sure can't. Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that there is no real loop hole here if you look at ALL the facts. Thankyou & goodnight. My time is coming... [This message has been edited by Unmei no Sentaku (edited 12-01-2000).] Posted by DarthSalamander on 12:02:2000 10:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by Unmei no Sentaku: Lotusson: Basically all I'm saying is that Hulk's power, at least the way he is officially written, is truly limitless. [This message has been edited by Unmei no Sentaku (edited 12-01-2000).] If that is true kind of makes him a lame hero in a way. Hulk goes "Hello, I cannot lose because I am stronger than anyone in creation and just keep getting stronger and stronger." Who the hell can beat down Hulk? quote: Originally posted by TeamDan: It's simple. Dan is the solution to everything. I mean, Dan is the best character in the game. It's really not arguable. http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:02:2000 10:47 AM: WTF it just hit me... If yall remember Doomesday killed Superman (and I cant honestly save I know any thing about Doomesday or his powers). So I mean if Doomesday killed Supes then Hulk should be able to also. Yall tell me what you think or shoot my theory down or whatever. Just support your response ok. Maybe theres hope for the Jade Giant after all... P.S. Lottusson I took a look at those Hulk and Juggy links and thanks for the info cuz I now know somewhat whats going on in the Hulk comics now. And I know a lot more about Juggy. I didnt realize he was soooo powerful cuz they made him kinda weak in the early 90s X-Men cartoon. --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:02:2000 11:17 AM: DarthSalamander: Depending on your perspective that could make Hulk a "lame" hero. But frankly I don't think so. I'm a long time Hulk fan & from what I've seen Hulk's major appeal does not come from his limitless power. It comes from 2 things. The more minor being the way he can always find some way to overcome obstacles & opponents that no one else can & are seemingly unstoppable. But the second & more prominent is his psychological aspect. That is, Hulk has dealt with much trauma in his life. First his abusive father & the premature death of his mother when he was a child, his transformation & all the trouble that caused, then getting married to betty & having to deal with her father, all his myriad personalities, his anger & the dangerous creature it made him, finding out that he could eventually become the most heinous villain the world has ever witnessed, & many many other things that I won't go into. What I'm trying to say is that there is a deep psychological aspect to the Hulk & his stories that is not found in many other books. My time is coming... Posted by DarthSalamander on 12:02:2000 12:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by Unmei no Sentaku: DarthSalamander: Depending on your perspective that could make Hulk a "lame" hero. But frankly I don't think so. I'm a long time Hulk fan & from what I've seen Hulk's major appeal does not come from his limitless power. It comes from 2 things. The more minor being the way he can always find some way to overcome obstacles & opponents that no one else can & are seemingly unstoppable. But the second & more prominent is his psychological aspect. That is, Hulk has dealt with much trauma in his life. First his abusive father & the premature death of his mother when he was a child, his transformation & all the trouble that caused, then getting married to betty & having to deal with her father, all his myriad personalities, his anger & the dangerous creature it made him, finding out that he could eventually become the most heinous villain the world has ever witnessed, & many many other things that I won't go into. What I'm trying to say is that there is a deep psychological aspect to the Hulk & his stories that is not found in many other books. My time is coming... I agree with you somewhat. I admit I made a rash genralization just to finally get someone to actaully reply to a post of mine on this topic. I have heard that the Hulk is indeed a good comic and I can imagine, like how you have listed, there can be a lot of deep stuff. I meant it was lame in how the way the Hulk finds a way to beat an opponent seems to be some horrible abuse of his power. Like clapping his hands or just sending someone into orbit. I mean look at it like this way. If Cyclops gets into a fight, you know he will most likely win because he of the fact he is a hero, but still it can be a challenge, you know this won't be easy for him. With Hulk it seems that you know he will win because he is the strongest most powerful guy on Earth would can destroy anything by getting mad and wow that really dosen't make it too exciting. I've asked a couple of times what villians can beat/ seriously challenge the Hulk and haven't got too much of an answer. I don't know if I'm making my point too clear but I hope you get it. On the other hand I have been told there is an issue of the Hulk where he has a bachelor party, only to see his fiance stars in it? Gotta give props when they are deserved. quote: Originally posted by TeamDan: It's simple. Dan is the solution to everything. I mean, Dan is the best character in the game. It's really not arguable. http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:02:2000 08:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by lotusson: I've seen Juggy listed inbetween 90-100 tons. And Hulk usually at 70-80 tons and can work his way up to 100. Just check the links that I posted above. As for the mountain. In comparison, Thing isn't as strong as the Hulk, but a MUCH better fighter. That's why he was always able to stand his ground with him. But fighting and lifting a mountain are two seperate things. I have "The New Fantastic Four" that consisted of Spiderman, Wolverine, the Hulk, and Ghost Rider. It had yet another Thing vs. Hulk battle and guess what? The Hulk won yet again. The Hulk has never lost the Thing and worse yet, the Hulk kicks the Thing's ass easily. I am not talking of fights that last several pages. No, I am talking of fights that last only a few panels. I have the "Heroes Reborn" in which it follows the Fantastic Four. Namor was angry at humans for polluting the water. Namor decided to destroy New York City. Namor called off his attack but realize this. Namor kicked the entire Fantastic Four's ass by himself. The Thing tried to trade punches with Namor and Namor hit the Thing so hard, he fell through a building. Needless to say, the Thing was knocked out. So the Thing is strong but Namor, the Hulk, and Thor have all demonstrated strength that the Thing simply can't handle. Thor has gone toe-to-toe with the Hulk without his hammer, and had a draw! So Thor has also fought the Thing without his hammer and Thor beat the Thing down in only a few panels. So the Thing can't bat in the major leagues of power. Posted by Gatts on 12:02:2000 09:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by lotusson: I know the crossover series where Superman beat Hulk was based on fan votes, but lets be serious. Superman would take the Hulk down either way. If you want to mix and match which version of the Hulk you want to throw up against Supey, then how about old Superman vs ANY Hulk. The old could literally move planets with his bare hands if he wanted too. He was so strong that DC intentially powered him down just to make the comic more fesable. That version of Superman would take out anyone. I agree that pre-crisis Superman could take out Hulk by blinking his eye and laughing, but that wasn't the Superman that fought him. With the version of Hulk that was fighting the version of Superman at the time, the version of Hulk should have won. It's not about how much ass any other version of Superman MAY have beaten any other version of Hulk, I'm just talking about the ones that were used. quote: The Lobo vs Wolverine fight...why the hell did they even fight??? They have nothing in common anyway. Characters with attitudes is all I can think of. http://63.92.61.161/forums/tongue.gif Anyway Lobo is Immortal and so is Wolverine to an extent, but Lobo has more tricks than Wolvie. It should have come down to who would keep whom down for longer. Lobo should have won that one. quote: Originally posted by Sword_Saint: JUGGERNAUT dont drink light BEER..... LOL! Good quote. I'll have to rememver that one. http://63.92.61.161/forums/biggrin.gif DarthSalamander Here's a small list of people who could kill Hulk in the Marvel Universe (people can feel free to add if they like): Shuma Gorath The Livin Tribunal Black Heart Mephisto Eternatiy Death Dr. Strange Galactus (before he was dead of course) Most of the Heralds of Galactus Phoenix & Dark Phoenix There are more characters like this that could kill Hulk, but they wouldn't really face Hulk in a fight so... Carol Danvers also might be able to pull it off depending on which form she is in, but that would be stretching it. http://www.geocities.com/sdgatts/pics/gatts.jpg Posted by Gatts on 12:02:2000 09:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by Unmei no Sentaku: As to some of the other things: Namor is not a god & Hulk has put him down multiple times before. Also, Hulk has beaten thor SEVERAL times in a clean fight. I can think of 3 off the top of my head. The one that sticks out most in my mind is one where Hulk mauled Thor so bad that Thor was laying hunched over at his feet & Hulk just got bored with the fight & left. I know Namor isn't a god, but I was listing really quickly so I thought Thor = god blah blah blah. Oh well. Anyway, all of the comics that I have with Hulk vs. Thor pretty much end in a Draw and Thor doesn't have the hammer with him. I would assume that with the Mjolnir, Thor would win easily. Which comics have Hulk kicking Thor's ass. It would be nice to see. http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif Did Thor have Mjolnir at the time? I also wonder if Hulk could carry Mjolnir. He seems to be the worthy sort... sometimes. http://www.geocities.com/sdgatts/pics/gatts.jpg Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:02:2000 10:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by Gatts: I know Namor isn't a god, but I was listing really quickly so I thought Thor = god blah blah blah. Oh well. Anyway, all of the comics that I have with Hulk vs. Thor pretty much end in a Draw and Thor doesn't have the hammer with him. I would assume that with the Mjolnir, Thor would win easily. Which comics have Hulk kicking Thor's ass. It would be nice to see. http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif Did Thor have Mjolnir at the time? I also wonder if Hulk could carry Mjolnir. He seems to be the worthy sort... sometimes. <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/sdgatts/pics/gatts.jpg"> I agree with almost everything you said but one bit. Namor has kicked the Hulk's ass before. Especially all their water, naval battles ended in Namor nearly drowning the Hulk. I have a comic from the 80s and the Hulk was hit by a blow so powerful from Namor, the Hulk flew several miles away. On land, the Hulk wins in pure power contests. But Namor can still present problems. For starters, it is a little played upon fact, but Namor is quick. Even on land, Namor has more agility plus the ability to fly. And Namor can summon monsters as big as New York skyscrapers. In the water, it is over. Water gives Namor strength, so by fighting in water, Namor has infinite stamina and endurance. His strength wouldn't run out. The Hulk has beaten Namor before. And I've seen Namor beat the Hulk before. And for the record, Namor has also outslugged the Hulk in land battles, so he can beat the Hulk out of water as well. If we are talking of the smart Hulk, the smart Hulk wins the land battles and loses the water battles. The dumb Hulk loses both in land and on water. I say it's a draw. Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:02:2000 10:35 PM: -Gatts- The Hulk can't pick up Thor's hammer. Only those with pure hearts, minds, and souls can pick up Thor's hammer. The worthy souls are a very small minority of characters. Captain America has picked it up before and the Silver Surfer can, because he has "the most noble soul in the universe." The Hulk has tried, only to fail everytime. Posted by Jin Rules! on 12:03:2000 04:45 AM: Jugg would win, and here's how When Hulk and Jugg would get ready to fight, Jugg would go "acutally, lets not fight. I'm sorry i was being such a jerk, here, have a cookie!". Hulk takes and eats the cookie, not realizing that it has a anti-depression drug in it! Hulk gets happy and turns back into Banner, where Jugg smashes him. I am Shin Orochi Evil Cyber Shaddow Jin Rules...nevermind. Posted by Sire Regent on 12:04:2000 01:29 AM: Who Would Win? In the comic world, it keeps changing from writer to whose book it is at the time. The one thing that I can say with confidence is that it wouldnt be a contest of strength, stamina, or healing abilities since the two are on the same level here. Like everyone says, the Hulk (dumb,smart,Bannerized,grey) starts at the 80- 90 tonage area in his calm state. Jugger starts in the 100 area. When the Hulk gets upset or has to fight for prolonged periods of time, his strength goes up more and more. The Juggernauts ALSO does this yet nobody has ever given him a chance to increase his strength since there has never been a reason to. So, in theory, both participants strengths will continue to increase during a fight. Where the Juggernaut has a advantage is in the force field area and the no need for air/food/water/etc.. Juggernaut can bring a protective forcefield up that will stop most attacks from even getting into contact with him. There might be other things that Juggernaut can do since his powers are magical and Dr. Strage has called on the Bands of Cytorrak (sp?) to bind people in unbreakable bonds. And who is Cytorrak? The same person who gives Juggernaut his powers. Where Hulk has the advantage is in the cunning department as well as the agility/speed department. He might even have more smarts than Juggernaut when it comes to fighting. But, like i said, it all depends on who is writing the story. In the video games, this is even harder to say who would win. If the Hulk from MSH fought the Jug from the same game, without either of them using their Infinity Gems that give them specials, it would be a close one but it would still come down to Juggernaut winning 7 outta 10 times IF the CPU is controlling both characters. Then, if you take XvsSF Juggernaut against MSHvs SF Hulk, Hulk would win 7 outta ten times there since he was placed into Jugger Style(armor) and given an extra Super. Now, if you pit Jug and Hulk in MvsC2,on a one on one (without Jug glitch), it would be Hulk again coming out on top. With glitch, Jug would win. Now i wonder if X:cota Jug would be better to fight MvsC2 Hulk. That would be intersting to see IMO. As for who is the strongest in the Marvel Comic universe, I beleive it would actually be the character called the Champion. He is a Elder of the universe that has beaten all of the "strongmen" of earth. Thor is also one of the Heroes of the Marvel Universe that is mucho stronger than he lets himself be on earth. If Thor was not afraid of hurting/killing a mortal and used his full strength, he would be virtually unstoppable. This has been pointed out to Thor many a times that he "pulls his punches" when facing opponents since he is used to doing it. Namor is also up there in the strength department and does get boost of strength from his anger and water.And the list goes on and on. Its not how much power you have, in the end. Its how you use it to your foes disadvantage and your advantage. --------------- I have walked the Gates of the Gods before your fighting style was even thought of. I have crushed Mars and Odin under my feet. What do you hope to do with a Rising punch and a Chi projection against me? Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:04:2000 04:37 AM: What is the full orgin of Namor?... I know he had a human mother and an Atlantean father but why the hell does he have wings on his feet and have godlike strenght??? Id love to know, so can someone help a brotha out?... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:04:2000 04:47 AM: Namor is Marvel Comics first hero, and first mutant. His strength is up their with the Hulk and Thor. I may get killed for this but I'll say it anyway, Namor even has more strength than the Juggernaut. Powers -Flight- His wings are a mutation. They have been destroyed in the past, only to grow back. It also helps Namor swim at fast speeds. -Immunity to Cold- Since Namor swims in freezing water, he is immune to cold whether. I have a comic where he is in Antartica and is only wearing shorts! Worst yet, Namor wasn't even cold. -Power- Granted by being a hybrid of Homo Sapien and Atlantean. Also, the mutant mutation of his DNA has also increased his power. -Stamina- Very high. Almost never tires. His strenght can hold up for days on land, but needs a recharge on water. When in the water, Namor has almost infinite strength. -Immunity to Pressure- The depths of Namor's home is at the very bottom of the ocean. Meaning even the greatest aqautic pressures have no effect on Namor. If I tried to go there, I would pass out or implode before even getting close to the bottom of the ocean floor. So Namor is really immune because the pressure down that far would easily destroy steel. -Ability to Breath Water and Air- Due to him being a hybrid. Namor is equally good at breathing air and water. Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:04:2000 04:54 AM: Namor's father was an American sea captain. One day, some Atlanteans were swimming and saw the American ship. Namor's mother, who was a princess, got lost from her group. She was confused and swam up to the American vessel. The humans were shocked at the blue-skinned princess and over time, the Captain fell in love with the princess. They got married on the ship and made love. The Atlanteans were worried and came looking for the princess. The Atlanteans killed all the humans on the ship, despite the objections of the princess. So 9 months later, the princess gave birth to Namor in the Kingdom of Atlantis, at the very bottom of the ocean. Namor became the prince and grew to be the king. This explains why Namor never knew of his father. He only knows he father was human. Namor is over 70 years old. He is like Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Captain America in the fact that Namor does not age. Namor has been a villain when he attacked humans. He attacks people when they pollute the oceans. Namor cleaned up his act and has lately been a hero. He has fought in the World Wars alongside Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Captain America to stop the Nazis. Namor continues to rule Atlantis. He has a crush on the Invisible Woman from the Fantastic Four but she is married to Mister Fantastic. Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:04:2000 05:08 AM: Thanks for the info Brandon Lee! http://63.92.61.161/forums/biggrin.gif How did you become such a comic book "nerd" (no offense of course cuz im kinda a comic nerd myself)? How old are you? --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:04:2000 05:14 AM: Yo Brandon I know that Namor came out around like 1915 or something in a small comic and Marvel bought him. But when exactly did Marvel comics form??? --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by pataylahat on 12:04:2000 05:18 AM: i remember in my old comic book days there was one called onslaught. for those who dont know who he was, prof X and joseph (formerly magneto) were merged together by a fatal accident. result created a being of enormous evil power, yeah there was a battle between onslaught and juggernaut. jugg was hurt badly, tossed around like a rag doll. literally left him broken. heck, onslaught even trapped him in the gem of cytorrak. hulk then fought him wayy later. O & H went at it hard. hulk won but he was split into 2 (banner/hulk). so i guess that answers this topic... http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/images/webs_small.jpg http://www.crosswinds.net/~akuma13/Animted_GIFs/msh/spiderman-stance.gif I DON'T TALK TRASH, I BURN IT!!! Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:04:2000 05:33 AM: Your kinda late Pataylahat cuz that issue was already disscussed on the first page... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:04:2000 07:37 AM: If you are wondering, I just turned 19 not too long ago. My brother was into comics before me, so I followed suit. We both have a very large collection of comics and comic cards. So I've been in the game for a while. Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:04:2000 09:23 AM: To whoever gave that list of people who could kill Hulk: Shuma Gorath: Hulk has beaten him. The Livin Tribunal: See below. Black Heart: Hulk has beaten him. Mephisto: See below. Eternatiy: See below. Death: See below. Dr. Strange: Hulk has beaten him. Galactus: See below. Most of the Heralds of Galactus: Hulk has beaten the 3 most powerful. (Silver Surfer, Firelord, & Terrax.) Phoenix: See below. Dark Phoenix: See below. "There are more characters like this that could kill Hulk, but they wouldn't really face Hulk in a fight so...": Regarding all of those characters to whom I put "See below". THEY ARE DEITIES FOR CRIPES SAKE!!! HULK WOULD NEVER FIGHT THEM ANYWAY!!! And BTW, all those whom I said Hulk has already beaten, I've got the issues to back it up. Also, to Gatts: You said that Juggernaut has the ability to increase his power as he fights, but that he's never had the chance. I'm afraid I have to call you on that one. It is true he can draw on power from the gem of cyttorak, but it is not an unlimited source. And he starts out at near his maximum anyway. Regarding Namor: Of course he beats Hulk in the water, but in a pure test of strength? No chance. He has never beaten Hulk one on one in a contest of strength or fighting prowess. Period. My time is coming... Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 12:04:2000 12:12 PM: Some people who can/could beat Hulk: Magneto- The Hulk's got iron in his blood doesn't he? Nate Grey- The Hulk can't stop a mind wipe Professor X- The Hulk can't stop a mind wipe Scarlet Witch- You never know what could happen when she does one of her hexes..... turn into Bruce Banner maybe? Wolverine- He has a VERY small chance..... but he could cut at The Hulk throat enough and kill him. Silver Surfer- He's a cosmic being so he may not count but....... the Power Cosmic is LIMITLESS and all-consuming! Thanos (Without the Infinity Gauntlet)- Stood toe-to-toe with Odin..... F*CK THAT! That's some power for yo' ass. Drax the Destroyer (From the Warlock and the Infinity Watch)- Dumb as a box of rocks, but when he had his mental faculties...... The last three guys don't really count, I feel, because they're like cosmic beings (or really close). Still..... they can go to work. This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: That DC vs Marvel thing was one of THE BIGGEST CROCS I'VE EVER SPENT MONEY ON...... Superman vs Hulk- The Hulk gets hit real hard and gets knocked out? In less than 3 pages?! Granted, it wasn't the madder-I-get-the-stronger-I-get Hulk, but COME ON! The Hulk is Doomsday! You mean to tell me The Hulk gets beat in less than 3 pages? WHATEVER! Namor the Submariner vs Aquaman- I'm not too hot on Namor, but even I saw this was bullshit! A whale? A F*CKING WHALE?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Wolverine vs Lobo- Why are they even fighting each other? Logan should have been matched up with Batman. (Or that... dude.... FUCK I CAN'T REMEMBER HIS NAME! He hung around the Teen Titans..... Was an immortal I think.... REALLY good at hand-to-hand combat....... Not Nightwing..... He always wore a mask..... Tended to use a spear.... I think his name was something like the Intimidator or the Executioner or the Dominator or something.......) Anyway, Lobo is a joke, pure and simple. Lobo should have fought Deadpool or something. Storm vs Wonder Woman- Am I the only person who thought WW should have fought Rogue? WW was CLEARLY outmatched against Ororo. Thor vs Shazaam- Thor versus who? Why isn't he fighting Martian the Manhunter? I don't think they've made Shazaam comics since the 60's. Spiderman vs Superboy- Who thought up this matchup? James Jonah Jameson? Superboy was (at that time) a punk ass kid who doesn't know how to fully utilize his powers. And you put him up against Spidey? Catwoman vs Elektra- This fight went as I thought it should..... However, shouldn't Catwoman have been fighting The Black Cat? Green Lantern vs Silver Surfer- Didn't the Surfer win this fight? I thought this one of the few fights that was well chosen. Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:04:2000 05:16 PM: -Unmei no Sentaku- There is no way the Hulk beat the Living Tribunal. During the Infinity Gem Crusade, at one time, Adam Warlock had the gems. Even before having the gems, Warlock was still an extremely powered hero. So with the gems, Warlock almost had limitless power in the Marvel Universe. Even with the Infinity Gauntlet, The Living Tribunal was still more powerful than Adam Warlock! And you say the Hulk won? Fuck that. The Living Tribunal could beat the Hulk's ass even if he had the Infinity Gems. Just ask Adam Warlock, who still couldn't match the Living Tribunal's powers. In case you don't know, the Living Tribunal is either God himself or a very powerful 2nd-hand man of God. So no, the Hulk would never win. And if he did, you can now see, the Hulk had no fucking business winning. This fight wouldn't even last 10 panels. Out. Posted by Sire Regent on 12:04:2000 11:28 PM: Living Tribunal is not more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet. The reason that the Living T had power over Adam Warlock at that time was Warlock had split himself into three without him even knowing it (the Goddess, Adam Warloc, and the Magus). The Living T would have to become the servant of whomever ACTUALLY wore the gems on thier person, they would control everything and everyone in the Marvel Universe. As for where it says that Juggerenaut has limitless power, it was talked about in the pages of The Avengers during the 8th day event was going on. Jug is only capable of tapping into what the Cytorrack gem has on the surface. If the Juggernaut actually went about learning about his powers instead of just using what he does know, he would be very deadly. I mean, Hulk has found out that he can do more than just smash stuff. In one issue, he actually changed his face to look like the Maestro. He can see spiritsn when he is in dumb mode. Like i said, it all depends on who is writing the story and what they want to happen. If Jug became a hero (one of the things i ben waitng for him to become like his son J2) then i bet there would be some interesting things to learn bout him and his powers. As for Cannonball, i think he can take almost any physical being in the Marvel Universe and win as long as his Blast Field is going. The more he learns about it and what he can do, the better he has become (beating Gladiator for instance). The only thing stopping characters from getting better is the writers behind them. Another thought. ----------- I have walked the Gates of the Gods before your fighting style was even thought of. I have crushed Mars and Odin under my feet. What do you hope to do with a Rising punch and a Chi projection against me? Posted by DarthSalamander on 12:04:2000 11:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: Wolverine vs Lobo- Why are they even fighting each other? Logan should have been matched up with Batman. (Or that... dude.... FUCK I CAN'T REMEMBER HIS NAME! He hung around the Teen Titans..... Was an immortal I think.... REALLY good at hand-to-hand combat....... Not Nightwing..... He always wore a mask..... Tended to use a spear.... I think his name was something like the Intimidator or the Executioner or the Dominator or something.......) Anyway, Lobo is a joke, pure and simple. Lobo should have fought Deadpool or something. I think it was Deathstroke the Terminator. I think they had Wolvie and Lobo go at it because they aboth have feral attributes and can go berserk. However, I thought Lobo could fight Supes and give him a challenge? What the hell can Wolvie do against Lobo if that is true? Anyways I agree with you it was a mismatch, simply because Lobo is a joke and Wolvie ain't funny. quote: Originally posted by TeamDan: It's simple. Dan is the solution to everything. I mean, Dan is the best character in the game. It's really not arguable. http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:04:2000 11:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sire Regent: Living Tribunal is not more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet. The reason that the Living T had power over Adam Warlock at that time was Warlock had split himself into three without him even knowing it (the Goddess, Adam Warloc, and the Magus). The Living T would have to become the servant of whomever ACTUALLY wore the gems on thier person, they would control everything and everyone in the Marvel Universe. As for where it says that Juggerenaut has limitless power, it was talked about in the pages of The Avengers during the 8th day event was going on. Jug is only capable of tapping into what the Cytorrack gem has on the surface. If the Juggernaut actually went about learning about his powers instead of just using what he does know, he would be very deadly. I mean, Hulk has found out that he can do more than just smash stuff. In one issue, he actually changed his face to look like the Maestro. He can see spiritsn when he is in dumb mode. Like i said, it all depends on who is writing the story and what they want to happen. If Jug became a hero (one of the things i ben waitng for him to become like his son J2) then i bet there would be some interesting things to learn bout him and his powers. As for Cannonball, i think he can take almost any physical being in the Marvel Universe and win as long as his Blast Field is going. The more he learns about it and what he can do, the better he has become (beating Gladiator for instance). The only thing stopping characters from getting better is the writers behind them. Another thought. ----------- I have walked the Gates of the Gods before your fighting style was even thought of. I have crushed Mars and Odin under my feet. What do you hope to do with a Rising punch and a Chi projection against me? I guess I overstated The Living Tribunal's power. But you must agree with me on one thing: There is no way in hell the Hulk should beat The Living Tribunal! I was saying the Living Tribunal was so strong because somebody actually thought the Hulk was better. Posted by Sire Regent on 12:05:2000 12:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: I guess I overstated The Living Tribunal's power. But you must agree with me on one thing: There is no way in hell the Hulk should beat The Living Tribunal! I was saying the Living Tribunal was so strong because somebody actually thought the Hulk was better. Its cool. I get what your saying bout Hulk vs Living T. Thats kinda like the farmer from DBZ episode one vs SSGtype 20. =) Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:05:2000 01:36 AM: .... [This message has been edited by Sword_Saint (edited 12-04-2000).] Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 12:05:2000 01:37 AM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander: I think it was Deathstroke the Terminator. I think they had Wolvie and Lobo go at it because they aboth have feral attributes and can go berserk. However, I thought Lobo could fight Supes and give him a challenge? What the hell can Wolvie do against Lobo if that is true? Anyways I agree with you it was a mismatch, simply because Lobo is a joke and Wolvie ain't funny. YEAH! Deathstroke! That's what his name was. He was/is badass! A GREAT fighter martial art wise AND tactically (took out the ENTIRE Teen Titans team.... and that was when they had Cyborg and Terra!) Plus, he's immortal. Thanks DarthSalamnder! http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif Deathstroke vs Wolverine..... now THAT is a pay-per-view event! This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: Why doesn't Superman ever use his Superspeed in his fights? Just goes to show you how dumb a fighter he is. Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:05:2000 02:05 AM: The Living Tribunal doesnt serve whoever has the Infinity Gauntlet. LT is balance in the Marvel universe whenever something catastrophic happens that will destroy the balance in the multivers he intervenes. To the point of even destroying that universe! When Warlock had the gems they had a trial over them. All the big powers(Galactus, Eternity, Celestials etc. etc.) were there. They argued with warlock and almost got into a fight. YOu know what LT did he shut the gauntlet OFF. After that he decreed they couldnt be use in unison and that solved it. Which led to the forming of the Infinity Watch and all that. LT is the big power in Marvel. But back to the topic. Juggie wins because simply put the forcefield which actually is near celestial strength is impervious to Hulk. Juggie himslef is only hurt by magic. Juggie himself has a healing factor thats better than wolvies not near the hulks but thats good enough. So even if hurt by magic he heals REAL quick. His strength after ABSORBING the Cytorrak gem after onalsught has made all of this WAYY more powerful. His strength, hes one of the top two strongest of marvel villains who arent Dragon Ball godlike. The other being Curse from the Thor books. Hulk has no invulnerabilities PERIOD. His healing factor is so fast people thought he was invulnerable. But healing factor and stamina dont stop a knockout blow. You get hit in the right spot at the right time youre gone. Ask a boxer strength helps jar you into unconciousness. But its a shock to the system that essentially causes you to reboot http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif. As strong as hulk is he cant get thru Juggies defensive strengths. Juggie has a higher endurance than hulk so he can last the fight out til that KO blow is landed. Like has been said you cant use comic appearances their determined by popularity and how much a writer likes the char. Spiderman knocked out Firelord, but couldnt do ANYTHING to Juggie. He simply gave Juggie what he wanted and Juggoe moved on. Those two examples contradict themselves so you cant use them. Try reading the Marvel Universes or better yet look at he Marvel RPG to see it put in Ranking. Hulk is good but power and rank wise Juggie just has everything to take him out. "I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool." Posted by Jin Rules! on 12:05:2000 02:34 AM: Wasn't there a different Marvel vs. DC? And at the end of each book the 2 fighters combined? I remember it well Wolverine vs. Batman to make Nightclaw ummm, well thats all i remember, but there were more damn it! Anyone know the company, or a webpage? I am Shin Orochi Evil Cyber Shaddow Jin Rules...nevermind. Posted by slade on 12:05:2000 02:38 AM: I thought Eternity would be at least a match for the Living Tribunal. Isn't Eternity the living embodiment of the universe? Sorry if I sound ignorant but I haven't collected comics for the past 7 years. Posted by The_Darkness on 12:05:2000 02:50 AM: The Jugg Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:05:2000 07:08 AM: Brandon Lee: No offense, but I don't think you read what I wrote vary carefully. I listed the tribunal as one of the people who Hulk would never even fight anyway. I've been collecting comics, almost exclusively marvel, for about 13 years now, so I do have an inkling of what I'm talkin about. To Sword Saint: I would like to contest one thing you said. That is the fact that Hulk has no invulnerabilities. Now it's true Hulk doesn't have a force field, but he has IMMENSE durability. This includes ballistics of all kinds, & bludgeons as well. It is also a little known fact that Hulk is virtually impervious to any form of energy directed against him, due to the fact that the source of his powers is radiation based, he is something of an energy battery. Also, Hulk's healing factor is so good as to not only put wolverine's to shame, but he might as well be immortal. Here are just a few of the more potent wounds Hulk has survived without more than a moment's pause: Being shot through the eye by a rifle at point blank range, being impaled on a street post, multiple nuclear detonations at ground zero, having his throat sliced (at one point his head was almost totally severed), being eaten by some kind of huge monster, falling through earth's atmosphere (don't just think of the impact when he hit, but also the heat of re-entry), & many many others. All of these examples are in the books & you can see them for yourself. And in all of these, the Hulk was right back in the fight almost immediately. And how do you know that the Hulk has a point at which he begins to tire? I've read Hulk for a long time & I've never seen it happen. As in the scenario I posted earlier, Juggy's forcefield could only ward off the blows so long before Hulk did indeed become to powerful. I mean I'd love to see Juggy support manhattan island. You'd have the UNSTOPPABLE PANCAKE!!! My time is coming... Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:05:2000 07:14 AM: Just a test. I'll delete this momentarily. My time is coming... Posted by Gambit on 12:05:2000 07:22 AM: I dunno, but when it's all said and done, Gambit wins. http://63.92.61.161/forums/wink.gif -Gambit, of Fighters.net fame. Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:05:2000 08:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Unmei no Sentaku: Brandon Lee: No offense, but I don't think you read what I wrote vary carefully. I listed the tribunal as one of the people who Hulk would never even fight anyway. I've been collecting comics, almost exclusively marvel, for about 13 years now, so I do have an inkling of what I'm talkin about. To Sword Saint: I would like to contest one thing you said. That is the fact that Hulk has no invulnerabilities. Now it's true Hulk doesn't have a force field, but he has IMMENSE durability. This includes ballistics of all kinds, & bludgeons as well. It is also a little known fact that Hulk is virtually impervious to any form of energy directed against him, due to the fact that the source of his powers is radiation based, he is something of an energy battery. Also, Hulk's healing factor is so good as to not only put wolverine's to shame, but he might as well be immortal. Here are just a few of the more potent wounds Hulk has survived without more than a moment's pause: Being shot through the eye by a rifle at point blank range, being impaled on a street post, multiple nuclear detonations at ground zero, having his throat sliced (at one point his head was almost totally severed), being eaten by some kind of huge monster, falling through earth's atmosphere (don't just think of the impact when he hit, but also the heat of re-entry), & many many others. All of these examples are in the books & you can see them for yourself. And in all of these, the Hulk was right back in the fight almost immediately. And how do you know that the Hulk has a point at which he begins to tire? I've read Hulk for a long time & I've never seen it happen. As in the scenario I posted earlier, Juggy's forcefield could only ward off the blows so long before Hulk did indeed become to powerful. I mean I'd love to see Juggy support manhattan island. You'd have the UNSTOPPABLE PANCAKE!!! My time is coming... I ain't dissing you. No need to get defense. And this Hulk-Juggy thing is overhyped. I agree with Jinsogood because I've seen what he has: The Hulk knocking the Jugg out with one punch. I've seen it and say this fight is over before it even begins. Remember in the "All Access Series" in which Wonder Woman beats the Jugg? I do. And since the Hulk nearly beat Supes in the "Marvel vs. DC Crossover," I think the Jugg is overmatched because the Hulk could beat Wonder Woman yet the Jugg gets thrashed. So I too see the Hulk winning. But I see him winning in round 1. Posted by Sire Regent on 12:05:2000 09:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: I ain't dissing you. No need to get defense. And this Hulk-Juggy thing is overhyped. I agree with Jinsogood because I've seen what he has: The Hulk knocking the Jugg out with one punch. I've seen it and say this fight is over before it even begins. Remember in the "All Access Series" in which Wonder Woman beats the Jugg? I do. And since the Hulk nearly beat Supes in the "Marvel vs. DC Crossover," I think the Jugg is overmatched because the Hulk could beat Wonder Woman yet the Jugg gets thrashed. So I too see the Hulk winning. But I see him winning in round 1. WHOA! hold on. once again, your going by what the writers say will happen. The fights are already ordained as to who is going to win. Look at each others "real" stats and then figure out who would win in an unbiased fight. The facts are: Juggernaut has a unpenatrabel force field that stops all forces short of magic from coming into contact with him. Hulk has limited intelligence right now(last time i checked when he fought the Thunderbolts) and his strenght is incredible but doesnt really have a way to penetrate a magical barrier. Just looking at thses facts, NOT looking at who the writers want to win, the Hulk is at a very huge disadvantage. Just my two cents. Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:05:2000 09:29 AM: No hulk doesnt have resistance to blunt force and such. Thats what the healing factor does. They always thought he was invulnerable til they found out about the healing factor. Wolvie wishes he had hulks healing factor, but he also wishes he had Jugg's. Check out the RPG if you ever get the chance Hulk at full rage is lifting a max of 500 tons. Jugg's Force field is strong enough in ranking to take surfer and hulk bombarding it at the same time. Juggis field is in the upper tier of cosmic str. Remeber juggs is powered by a god so powerful that Doc Strange calls on him for some of his spells. Like i and others have said you cant use those bogus comic appearances. If so then we could claim that Wolvie is stronger than Wonder Man. Since in one of the infinity sagas he gut punched WM and knocked him on his ass. But we all know how rediculous that is. Comic appearances are toooo open to interpretation. We'll go back and forth with this appearance or that one to support our points. Look at the powers look at the power sources. Then look at something that isnt writer or popularity dependant like the RPG stats. Juggs just has too much stuff. I like hulk, but nobody got "Big Man's Complex" like the juggster. "I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool." Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:05:2000 10:04 AM: Jin Rules! those comics with Batman/Wolverine and all of those others was called Anagrams and they were really gay! I dont know about web pages but you could always use the search engines.. --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:05:2000 10:48 AM: Hey! Hey! Hey! What the hell happened to my Iceman VS The Human Torch! post??? I looked everywhere and even searched it and the page said that the url was lost or deleted... What the hell... --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:05:2000 05:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sword_Saint: No hulk doesnt have resistance to blunt force and such. Thats what the healing factor does. They always thought he was invulnerable til they found out about the healing factor. Wolvie wishes he had hulks healing factor, but he also wishes he had Jugg's. Check out the RPG if you ever get the chance Hulk at full rage is lifting a max of 500 tons. Jugg's Force field is strong enough in ranking to take surfer and hulk bombarding it at the same time. Juggis field is in the upper tier of cosmic str. Remeber juggs is powered by a god so powerful that Doc Strange calls on him for some of his spells. Like i and others have said you cant use those bogus comic appearances. If so then we could claim that Wolvie is stronger than Wonder Man. Since in one of the infinity sagas he gut punched WM and knocked him on his ass. But we all know how rediculous that is. Comic appearances are toooo open to interpretation. We'll go back and forth with this appearance or that one to support our points. Look at the powers look at the power sources. Then look at something that isnt writer or popularity dependant like the RPG stats. Juggs just has too much stuff. I like hulk, but nobody got "Big Man's Complex" like the juggster. "I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool." The Jugg cannot take Silver Surfer's punishment. A little known fact at www.marvel.com shows that the Silve Surfer has Superhuman Class 100 strength, the same as the Hulk. Mix the Surfer's power, his ability to travel faster than light speed, and the Power Cosmic, the power that can destroy planets, and the Juggernaut is dead. Here's how the Surfer can embarass the Jugg. Right off the bat, the Surfer uses his molecule arrangment powers to turn the Juggernaut's armor into cucumbers. Then Silver Surfer uses his Power Cosmic, a power so deadly that it can destroy planets and even hurt the almight planet consuming Galactus, and the Juggernaut is dead. The Jugg cannot take the blows of Thor's Magic Hammer, and if he can't take that, then he can't take the power of the Power Cosmic, because it is even stronger. Posted by lotusson on 12:05:2000 09:04 PM: DB in the house [This message has been edited by lotusson (edited 12-05-2000).] Posted by lotusson on 12:05:2000 09:11 PM: Well, SS is strong and would eventually kicks the Juggernaut's ass, no question there. But not in the way you described. For starters SS's cosmic power would just bounce off Juggy's shield, so it won't be that simple. To say that SS could just remove Juggy's force field is impossible. SS is strong but I don't see him undoing the work of the God's themselve. That's basically saying that SS is literally unstoppable and can do anything he wants anytime he wants. His super strength and light speed may put him over the top in the end, but I don't see him undoing that which more powerful gods have done. If that was the case, why couldn't he just, lets say...Shrink Galactus' head anytime he caused trouble? Posted by Dan Hibiki on 12:05:2000 10:16 PM: The Hulk would win for one reason ... I call this reason the BS factor. Since so many people like the Hulk more than the Juggernaut and the Hulk is the good guy ... the Hulk wins. BS factor is what gives comic book heroes their edge. Don't get me wrong, the bad guys do have their high points, but they ultimatly lose ... which sucks in my opinion. I'll always be rooting for the Juggernaut! Yay! ::ele gleam:: I'm Juggernaut! http://63.92.61.161/forums/biggrin.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:05:2000 10:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by lotusson: Well, SS is strong and would eventually kicks the Juggernaut's ass, no question there. But not in the way you described. For starters SS's cosmic power would just bounce off Juggy's shield, so it won't be that simple. To say that SS could just remove Juggy's force field is impossible. SS is strong but I don't see him undoing the work of the God's themselve. That's basically saying that SS is literally unstoppable and can do anything he wants anytime he wants. His super strength and light speed may put him over the top in the end, but I don't see him undoing that which more powerful gods have done. If that was the case, why couldn't he just, lets say...Shrink Galactus' head anytime he caused trouble? You forget, the Silver Surfer asorbs energy. Thor, the God of Thunder, can also asorb energy. The Silver Surfer would asorb the power of the force field, and leave Juggy drained. Don't believe me, look: In the comics, Silver Surfer has drained all the energy out of Gods. Meaning in turn, the Surfer could also cancel out Jugg's power. This is a talent only the upper-tier Marvel characters have. I mentioned Thor earlier, because like the Silver Surfer, his hammer asorbs all energies and magic. Meaning the hammer would split the defense of the Jugg. Well, the Surfer can also asorb magic too and we all know that the origins of the Juggernaut's powers are magical, from the crystal. The reason Silver Surfer's powers have trouble against Galactus is because the Silver Surfer was a former herald of Galactus. In other words, Galactus gave the Surfer his power. So Galactus wields more power than the Surfer because the Surfer was orginally made to be his slave/servant. However, since Galactus is so strong that he easily kills Gods and he actually eats entire planets, this explains why the Surfer is so strong. Pick up the "Marvel Vs. DC" crossover. The Silver Surfer defeated the Green Latern, because the Power Cosmic is even stronger than the Lantern's ring. People forget, the Power Cosmic can destroy entire planets. So in truth, only a handful of people like Odin, Thor, Thanos, Mephisto (even though the Surfer has already beateb him), and others of this calibur are even in the Surfer's league. The Surfer can kill Gods with only a few blasts of the Power Cosmic. The thing is, the Surfer usually holds back. So when the Surfer doesn't hold back, he can kill very strong foes in just 1 blast. Posted by The_Darkness on 12:06:2000 12:35 AM: I thought about this it would be Jugg he is way stronger!! Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 12:06:2000 03:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: The Jugg cannot take the blows of Thor's Magic Hammer, and if he can't take that, then he can't take the power of the Power Cosmic, because it is even stronger.[/B] Whoah! I don't know about that. If you go with the comics (which many of us are) I've seen many times when Thor was with the Avengers and in his own mag when Thor threw his Mjolnir at Juggy and it did nothing. One time I remember Juggy using his forcefield after Thor threw it at him and it hitting the forcefield and being slowed to the point that Juggy actually touched it and grabbed its return to Thor to ride on it and knock Thor OUT! Mjolnir can't take Juggy's field. But it can't take the Power Cosmic. The Power Cosmic is like Green Lantern's ring..... It can make the Surfer accomplish ANYTHING! It gave Galactus pause. GALACTUS! Galactus would LITERALLY EAT Juggernaut! The Power Cosmic IS POWER! Nobody on Marvel Earth can fuck with it. This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: Did Martian the Manhunter ever have his own mag? Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:06:2000 04:02 AM: Sire Regent: you named 1 statistic for each character. That HARDLY constitutes the victor of a battle of this caliber. Jugg's forcefield is NOT impenetrabe! Why can't people understand that! They say it's only vulnerable to magic, but how do you know that? Once again, I point out that Onslaught had ZERO magical abilities, but he penetrated the forcefield quite easily. And Hulk beat Onslaught! How does anyone here have the ability to say that magical powers are stronger than biological powers? That's just an assumption. Sword Saint: I don't think it's fair to judge by the RPG. I mean the people who make those things just throw numbers out there to get the stats on paper & get the game on the market. Also, how do you know Jugg's force field can withstand whatever the Hulk's strength may be? That sounds like an assumption to me. The_Darkness: Do you have ANYTHING to back that up? He's "way stronger" is hardly an argument. Lastly: It simply baffles me that people keep bringing this thing up about how the battles are determined by the writer's. OF COURSE THEY ARE!!! COMICS AREN'T REAL!!! How else would the battles be determined other than by the writers?! Also, don't you guys think that the people who write the books might have a little better knowledge of the workings of the characters? I mean yes Hulk is the hero, but so what? Maybe the writers actually have an inkling of experience with what their doing, anyone ever think of that? Maybe the fact of the matter is that they write the battles the way they would really come out according to the character's. Maybe the reason Hulk is the hero of his own book & Jugg isn't is because he really is more powerful. And to those who say that the battles are open to inrepretation I say, you're absolutely right. And one interpretation is as good as the next. And that means that the interpretation that Hulk would win is just as valid as that of those who side with Jugg. What I'm really trying to say is that of course everything is open to interpretation, but we really only have anything to base an official judgement on than the interpretation of the pro's. The ones who get paid to do this, get paid for a reason. And this includes the creators of the characters themselves. My time is coming... Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:06:2000 06:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: Whoah! I don't know about that. If you go with the comics (which many of us are) I've seen many times when Thor was with the Avengers and in his own mag when Thor threw his Mjolnir at Juggy and it did nothing. One time I remember Juggy using his forcefield after Thor threw it at him and it hitting the forcefield and being slowed to the point that Juggy actually touched it and grabbed its return to Thor to ride on it and knock Thor OUT! Mjolnir can't take Juggy's field. But it can't take the Power Cosmic. The Power Cosmic is like Green Lantern's ring..... It can make the Surfer accomplish ANYTHING! It gave Galactus pause. GALACTUS! Galactus would LITERALLY EAT Juggernaut! The Power Cosmic IS POWER! Nobody on Marvel Earth can fuck with it. This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: Did Martian the Manhunter ever have his own mag? Realize the present Thor has been watered down. For starters here is Thor's line: He has Superhuman Class 100 strength, the same amount of power the Hulk and the Silver Surfer have. Also, the hammer is made of an enchanted metal. Thor has shown his hammer is even stronger than adamintium by putting dents in adamintium when he is fully pissed off. Look at the old school Thor. Granted, when Thor throws the hammer, it is not nearly as strong as when he swings it. In the "Heroes Reborn" Thor throws the hammer at Namor and Namor fell to the ground. And if you read my earlier posts, you see Namor is strong as fuck, maybe having nearly the same amount of raw strength as Thor himself. When Thor swings the hammer, the effects are deadly. Thor has killed Gods, Aliens, Trolls, Monsters, Demons, and devils all with the swing of his hammer. There is one comic in which Thor hits somebody so hard with the hammer, there are energy rings of multi-colored ultraviolet rays that ushered forth. In other words, Thor hit somebody so hard, it made a nuclear explosion style, atomic bomb mushroom cloud shot up into the sky. Meanwhile, the energy of Thor's hammer, produced varying degrees of light, as an after-effect. Needless to say, Thor killed the enemy in the comic. The present Thor doesn't use all his strength, doesn't teleport as much, and doesn't summon the same lightning storms like he used to in the past. So people tend to underrate Thor. But don't. He is the shit. I'd even pick Thor to not only beat the Jugg, I would also pick this 10,000 year old Thunder God to defeat the Juggernaut as well. Posted by Brandon Lee on 12:06:2000 06:22 AM: Also, the hammer of Thor asorbs magic. The Juggernaut himself even says, "My powers are magical." So the Jugg's forcefield is in trouble. Thor's hammer is so powerful, it can asorb the magic of Dr. Strange, Eternals, and even Gods themselves. So if Thor can asorb magic that powerful, he could also negate the Jugg's magic. That is why villains with magical based powers get crushed by Thor. His hammer asorbs their attacks and deflects their power. Posted by DarthSalamander on 12:06:2000 06:37 AM: Wasn't there somebody like Molecule Man or some corny name like that could destroy Thor's hammer and then put it back together again? Is it safe to say he could beat the crap out of Hulk/Thor/SilverSurfer(I mean with his powers, not his fists)? Someone told me that his powers were pretty close to omnipotence. Of course then again I'm sure in some comic SpiderMan beat him down after he was through with Firelord. quote: Originally posted by TeamDan: It's simple. Dan is the solution to everything. I mean, Dan is the best character in the game. It's really not arguable. http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by Gatts on 12:06:2000 08:12 AM: Damn. I go away for a few days and I've been misquoted TWICE. First by Brandon Lee, Unmei no Sentaku is the one who said that Namor would lose to Hulk. I said that Namor could beat Hulk, but he wasn't a deity. Please clarify this next time. Now Unmei no Sentaku. I was NOT the person who said Juggernaut didn't have a chance to power up. That was Sire Regent. Please look at who's making a post before replying and saying the wrong thing. Anyway as for Hulk and Thor's hammer, it says "who ever is worthy" can pick up the hammer. It says nothing about just. In one of the cross overs, Wonder Woman picked up Thors hammer and she's done some rotten stuff... Then again, she fits the same "all american" as Captain America so... http://63.92.61.161/forums/tongue.gif Anyway, I won't argue that point since I don't have the comics when Hulk tried to pick it up. quote: Originally posted by Unmei no Sentaku: To whoever gave that list of people who could kill Hulk: Shuma Gorath: Hulk has beaten him. The Livin Tribunal: See below. Black Heart: Hulk has beaten him. Mephisto: See below. Eternatiy: See below. Death: See below. Dr. Strange: Hulk has beaten him. Galactus: See below. Most of the Heralds of Galactus: Hulk has beaten the 3 most powerful. (Silver Surfer, Firelord, & Terrax.) Phoenix: See below. Dark Phoenix: See below. "There are more characters like this that could kill Hulk, but they wouldn't really face Hulk in a fight so...": Regarding all of those characters to whom I put "See below". THEY ARE DEITIES FOR CRIPES SAKE!!! HULK WOULD NEVER FIGHT THEM ANYWAY!!! And BTW, all those whom I said Hulk has already beaten, I've got the issues to back it up. So what you are saying is that Shuma has no chance of killing Hulk? I doubt it. I saw the fight where Hulk beat Shuma, but that does not mean that Shuma cannot kill Hulk. Dr. Strange is the same way, he can follow fate if the wants. BTW, Galactus is not a Deity and neither is Phoenix. http://63.92.61.161/forums/tongue.gif The point was to list people who could kill Hulk. Not beat Hulk in a straight up fight. Based on that assumption, is my list correct or not. Could the people I listed kill Hulk or not? It's a really simple question. Sorry, but I couldn't read the rest of the thread without saying this first. If someone else has already corrected them, good. http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif http://www.geocities.com/sdgatts/pics/gatts.jpg Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:06:2000 08:49 AM: The thing is the RPG's are based way less on popularity and other BS then the comics will ever manage to get to. Their meant to be balanced all over the place. Comics arent their popularity contests. I've seen Thor go against Jugg's twice he lost both matches. He won like Stephanie clocking the Rock so HHH can get the pedigree. Yeah about that fair. First time Thor used his hammer to conjure a mystical lightening bolt from asgard or something. It took Thor some time just to conjure it so you know it was strong. Jugs took it without blinking and it was mystical. Thor was shocked, he had called on the power of asgard and it did nothing. So with the huge crater he created around Juggs. Thor caused a hurricane that gathered all the iron in the area(it was a metal factory or something)melted it down around Juggs then teleported him to another dimension. This was at the end of a long fight. Now this wasnt recently this was awhile ago you cant use the "he's watered down" excuse. The other time he almost died stopping Juggs, and Juggs wasnt hurt he was just stopped. Jugg's is way more dangerous than people give credit for. but like i said before these are comic appearances so take them as you will. And about the surfer part. To put it in street fighter terms. Surfer is second tier(x-men are third tier for example) Juggs Shield is 1st tier period. Surfer absorbes cosmic energy, completely different than magic. He cant absorb the shield. I will say i think Surfer has a wayyy better chance than Hulk of beating a true juggie. And Galactcus getting paused by Surfer is like Galactus getting drunk under the table by hercules(yeah hercules did that). Galactus is literally older than the universe, how the hell can SS hurt him. The only times Galactus is weak is when hes starving. Thor cant beat Jugg's he can only make him someone elses problem. Hulk definately cant, jugg's will sit there and wait the two weeks for hulk to finally tire than BAM its over. SS has the best chance because he has the best BS factor of any of them. SS is like Goku, I wouldnt be surprised if he grew wings or something during the fight. And please stop bringing that BS fest that was Onslaught into this. Prof X cant stop Jugg's and nothing on Juggs is ferous and the shield stops Mag from ever hoping to touch juggs. If neither can beat him how the hell did "I'm afraid chamber will look at me " Onslaught do it i'll tell you how writer hype. After all has been said and done. hulk only has one thing that keeps comig up to say he can beat juggs. His strength when raged, and Juggs invulnerabilitis fix that problem. Juggs has alot more endance but has a weaker healing factor. Juggs starts out stronger but can get nearly as strong as raged hulk. he has a forcefield that only 1st tier chars can breach. Hulk is top 3rd tier. Hulk is outclassed by juggie. Also remember most people dont know juggie actually has a FF, i only found out about it thru the RPG. Most writers never use it because of how powerful it is. Most examples people have shown of someone whoioping Juggs, the forecfield was never written into the equation. Just think of mag's FF in CotA then multiply it by ten. The FF is that foul. And thats on top of all the other juggie advantages. "I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool." Posted by CainMarko on 12:06:2000 09:44 AM: Oy, hell. What I miss when I don't read the boards much anymore.. anyway.. Juggy/Hulk.. done to death. Tho Juggs has some things that Hulk don't. Juggy dosn't need to breathe, while Hulk does. and Juggy has lived through being dumped in liquid metal(Twice, and the 2nd time he didn't have all of his powers) kind hard for Hulk's healing factor to kick in when he can be dumped in the stuff. Over all, Hulk has won vs Juggy many times(save for Hulk#402) but has never beaten Him. War Hulk VS Juggs was the closest I can think to a clean Beat. But I don't think War could've truly cut Cain's head off. Juggy/Thor: Thor#412: Thor called down one of his "prey for lighting" Bolt. Juggy wasn't even fazed. Then thor sends out a blast that "..Once hurled back Galactus...and gave pause to a Celestial." Juggy was knocked back a little, but ended up having the ground give in due to the pressure, then Thor TP'd Juggy to some alien world to "stop" him. Thor#429: Thor struck Juggy with "The full force of the hammer" Didn't even slow Cain down. Thor however used his hammer to make a spell to negate Juggy's magic force field. giving Thor the far advantage over Juggy, but he still couldn't KO him. The hammer returned to Thor and he then used it to throw Cain into space. Both times Thor Won, but didn't beat Juggy. Juggy has beaten others before, most notably Collosus in Uncanny#183 in a bar fight. and Dazzler/Rouge/Psylocke/Longshot had many problems taking Cain down before learning to work together(Uncanny#218) Then there was the group of his Peers(The Expaulars?) 7 other super beings on Juggy's level.(during the 8th day story line) One reason I like Cain is that he isn't the "I wanna own the world" type of Villain. He might not win them all, but under the right writer (Joe Kelly, FabNic, Chris Claimont, PAD) He can be a great guy to read about. And HE DOSE NOT HAVE A HEALING FACTOR. Just somthing Rob lieField thought up to exuse him of weakening Juggs. Bastard. =P http://home.earthlink.net/~gann0n/misc/kofMary.gif http://home.earthlink.net/~gann0n/misc/mary99.gif "Are you ready?" La respuesta a su primera pregunta es shaddup. Posted by Unmei no Sentaku on 12:06:2000 10:12 AM: Sword Saint: Up until now most everything you have said posed a decent argument, but I have to contest the truth of one thing. THERE IS NO WAY JUGGY COULD STAND UP TO THE SILVER SURFER!!! SS is on the same power level as Thanos, who at one point defeated the eternals, including the champion, who is supposedly the single most powerful physical being on in existence. Not only could Jugg not withstand the Surfer, he would get mauled & likely killed if the surfer was so inclined. SS DID manage to give Galactus pause, & if anyone even tries to tell me that Jugg could stand up to Galactus I may very well have an aneurism laughing. Next, I still have seen nothing backing up the statement that Jugg's forcefield is absolutely impenetrable. There's no way to say that. And if we're talking about power, you always seem to leave out the fact that Hulk is designed with no upper limit to his power. Quite simply that means that eventually he will overcome any barrier. And it sure seems to me that Onslaught didn't have much trouble. Now for some reason people who stick up for Juggy always like to try & discount the whole Onslaught thing. I say to you, please don't disqualify it as a "BS fest" without backing it up. I have heard no argument that invalidates the Onslaught incident. Sure Onslaught was concerned about Nate Grey, Chamber, & Franklin Richards, but that was because they were beings of enormous psionic potential, which was Onslaught's most vulnerable point. My whole point, (which I have stated numerous times before), is that COMICS ARE NOT REAL! The outcome of the battles IS determined by the writer, & NOTHING ELSE. And I say this, there is a reason why the writers make the battles come out the way they do. You can't be theoretical on a final verdict, that's completely opinionated. For an official decision you have to base it on the officials, in this case the writers. There is a reason marvel comics have been around for decades upon decades, it's because they hire the best of the best who just happent to actually KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!!! My time is coming... Posted by Mr. Rebkishi on 12:06:2000 10:35 AM: Hulk is one of my favorite Marvel characters ever. That's why i'm glad they made him the strongest in the video games too. It's funny that there is a forum for Hulk vs. Juggernaut because my friend always uses Juggy against me in MvC2. Whenever he does that i choose Hulk so i can have a chance at winning. Hulk seems to be my only offense against Juggernaut. Posted by SilverSliver on 12:06:2000 10:56 AM: I know I'm gonna get flamed, but here's the list of marvel characters who could beat the hulk in a clean fight. Wonder Man Um..... the giant? Vision Living Lightning Dr strange Ghost Rider Namor Cyclops That's all I can think of for now. Good thing I didn't type SilverSilver! Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:06:2000 11:01 AM: The reason the Onslaught thing is BS is simple. If he had just tossed him to canada i would have no arguments with him. But how the hell does a mutant, 'cuz in the end thats what he was imprison Juggie in the Gem of Cytorrak? That one thing made the whole Onslaught fight a BS fest. Dormmamu , Doc Strange, Shumah Gorath (whose suppose to be one of the great 7 evils of Marvel), they can do it because their mystical in nature. They know the ways of magic. Thats like Bishop taking a blast of mystic energy. Which considering some of the recent stories i wouldnt be surprised if he did. The simple fact is Marvel has never ever respected its mystical characters. They've done better than DC by far, but still any mystical char is automatically considered on the short end. Especially in X-men look how they did arguably the greatest fighter in the MU Shang-Chi. No matter what you say theres no way wolvie can beat him in 3 PANELS? You know just reading this I'm starting to remember why I only pick up "Blade of the Immortal" now. To show how powerful their next batch of mutants are marvel always throws in a non-mutant . Thats what the whole Onslaught thing was. Its like Akuma decimating Bison before you fight him in ST. You have the "Old Gaurd" get beat by the new boys without any thought to their actual power. juggie getting done like that wasnt because they designed Onslaughts powers so that Juggie couldnt do anything against him. They did it so everyone reading would say "Oh my god, look what he did to Juggernaut. Juggie is SOOO powerful and he did that. Onslaught must be....." Hook line and sinker the new badguy is hella hyped up. Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:06:2000 11:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by SilverSliver: I know I'm gonna get flamed, but here's the list of marvel characters who could beat the hulk in a clean fight. Wonder Man Um..... the giant? Vision Living Lightning Dr strange Ghost Rider Namor Cyclops That's all I can think of for now. Good thing I didn't type SilverSilver! Cyclops?? What the hell. Cant argue with the others. Tho you should put Havok instead of Cyclops. Havok beat Hulk in his own book cleanly and legit. Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 12:06:2000 11:20 AM: Can someone please tell me how Juggernaut defeats the Silver Surfer? The Power Cosmic is the Power of the universe..... IT'S UNLIMITED! SS can absorb the Power of the Cosmos until he dies or shoots it in a blast that can destroy planets..... EASILY!! What's gonna run out 1st? The Gem of Cytorrak or The Power Cosmic? What is stronger? The Gem of Cytorrak or The Power Cosmic? What gives you more power as you use it? The Gem of Cytorrak or the Power Cosmic? This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: The Power Cosmic that Norrin Radd channels is ...... beyond description. Juggy can't get with that. Posted by Sword_Saint on 12:06:2000 11:37 AM: quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: Can someone please tell me how Juggernaut defeats the Silver Surfer? The Power Cosmic is the Power of the universe..... IT'S UNLIMITED! SS can absorb the Power of the Cosmos until he dies or shoots it in a blast that can destroy planets..... EASILY!! What's gonna run out 1st? The Gem of Cytorrak or The Power Cosmic? What is stronger? The Gem of Cytorrak or The Power Cosmic? What gives you more power as you use it? The Gem of Cytorrak or the Power Cosmic? This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: The Power Cosmic that Norrin Radd channels is ...... beyond description. Juggy can't get with that. Hmmm, I think i've been on here to long tonight. I dont think anyone ever said he could beat Surfer. At least i dont THINK i did http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif But youre thinking more of the Cosmic Cube, the power cosmic CAN be used in alot of ways. But SS has only used it in so many. He can make fire like Nova and Fl but he doesnt, what i'm saying is dont have SS doing things he DOESNt do and justify it with "its the power cosmic". Because hes high up in Marvel hed win. It just wouldnt be automatic. And Spider-Ham beats them all anyway http://63.92.61.161/forums/smile.gif http://63.92.61.161/forums/tongue.gif <ducks behind Juggernaut Statue> [This message has been edited by Sword_Saint (edited 12-05-2000).] Posted by DarthSalamander on 12:06:2000 11:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by Sword_Saint: The reason the Onslaught thing is BS is simple. If he had just tossed him to canada i would have no arguments with him. But how the hell does a mutant, 'cuz in the end thats what he was imprison Juggie in the Gem of Cytorrak? That one thing made the whole Onslaught fight a BS fest. Dormmamu , Doc Strange, Shumah Gorath (whose suppose to be one of the great 7 evils of Marvel), they can do it because their mystical in nature. They know the ways of magic. Thats like Bishop taking a blast of mystic energy. Which considering some of the recent stories i wouldnt be surprised if he did. The simple fact is Marvel has never ever respected its mystical characters. They've done better than DC by far, but still any mystical char is automatically considered on the short end. Especially in X-men look how they did arguably the greatest fighter in the MU Shang-Chi. No matter what you say theres no way wolvie can beat him in 3 PANELS? You know just reading this I'm starting to remember why I only pick up "Blade of the Immortal" now. To show how powerful their next batch of mutants are marvel always throws in a non-mutant . Thats what the whole Onslaught thing was. Its like Akuma decimating Bison before you fight him in ST. You have the "Old Gaurd" get beat by the new boys without any thought to their actual power. juggie getting done like that wasnt because they designed Onslaughts powers so that Juggie couldnt do anything against him. They did it so everyone reading would say "Oh my god, look what he did to Juggernaut. Juggie is SOOO powerful and he did that. Onslaught must be....." Hook line and sinker the new badguy is hella hyped up. Also, of course Onslaught can't do anything like throw the Hulk to Canada or imprison him in some sort of mystical prison because... oh wait, then the Hulk would lose. I love how in certain match ups one side forgets they can do something to easily defeat the other. quote: Originally posted by TeamDan: It's simple. Dan is the solution to everything. I mean, Dan is the best character in the game. It's really not arguable. http://www.geocities.com/bigbadbigjohn/ Posted by GameboyGTS on 12:10:2000 11:39 PM: Im still on the side of the Hulk but Juggy is not taken as seriously as he should be cuz he is an X-Men villan. And sometimes the X-Men can still handle him. But the Hulk would still own him in a fight. --Brian http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl Posted by Terazon on 03:03:2001 05:15 AM: I will end this discussion something fierce. Juggernaut has 6 attacks to kill Hulk before the fight becomes impossible for him to win. This is based on the marvel RPG stats for Hulk. These are the real stats for him. =His strength starts out at unearthly.[100] =Enhanced hyperstrength It goes up 1 level per time he attacks [mad or not]. =There are only 6-7 levels. 100, shift x 150, Shift y 300, shift z 500, class 1000 [adamantium's damage resistance, and shatters atoms causing nuclear explosions], 2000, Class 5000, and Beyond class. which is infinite damage/effectiveness for the trait or power] -Class 5000 leaping power[range/speed] =Stamina/endurance/damage resistances always matches strength =Unique power Hulk is the strongest there is. =Sub powers of above: -Strength Trump- Always makes any strength feat he attempts whether he struggles or not. In other words he can damage things and people he isn't supposed to through their immunity to damage if they have one. Juggernaut cannot kill Hulk in 7 attacks or less no matter what he does and will die if they fight. The Marvel guys have to make their comics interesting and so they take liberties sometimes deviating away from the official character sheet strength levels, but it's game over for Juggernaut if they fight based on their character sheets. [This message has been edited by Terazon (edited 03-24-2001).] Posted by Irken87 on 03:03:2001 06:03 AM: Without a doubt, the Jugg-man!!! Keep on fighting! Posted by MetaJuggerGief on 03:03:2001 06:51 AM: If you're talking about the comics, then Hulk wins hands down. He's bigger and stronger, but smarter? Not if Jugg was fighting the original green Hulk. But if you're talking about the Capcom games, then Juggernaut would probably win most of the matches. The Capcom games are the only arenas where Jugg is actually able to stand toe to toe with the Unfragable Krunk. heh. Posted by Miang on 03:03:2001 10:12 AM: I'll grant that my familiarity with Marvel's comics is more than a little limited but I thought that Phoenix was something rather very close to a deity herself. Especially since the Hulk doesn't really have any kind of defense against psychic attacks, which is something Phoenix ought to be terribly strong in... How could Hulk possibly beat her? Posted by KungfuJoe on 03:04:2001 02:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by GameboyGTS: If yall are tired of these dumbass Dragon Ball Z VS people to weak to matter posts here is a real versus question. Who would win in a fight The Incredible Hulk or The Juggernaut??? Hulk's power comes from Gamma radiation and he gets stronger over the years. And Juggernaut's power comes from a special Ruby hidden in a secret location. These are probably the strongest characters in the Marvel universe but who is the strongest of the two... --Brian <IMG SRC="http://www.paintballcity.com/mycity/Angel-City/dragos/Akumasmark.gif"> I have yet to unlease my true power... "You can't hurt me with the things that you do I'll pick up dandelions and I'll give them to you" -Bubbles, that raw ass Power Puff Girl who would win the writer of the battle wins. why do I say that because they control the outcome that is all and that explains why as silly as that battle was Aquaman won against Namor(landing a fish on him give me a break) It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is dumber. Posted by beta on 03:05:2001 10:23 AM: I have to confess that I didn't rtead any of the posts(so if what Í will say was covered, I apologize), but I read like 15 years ago in a litle dictionary of superheroes from marvel or something like that, that hulk had 100 tons of power(he could catch 100 tons over his head, I think). Judging from some histories, Juggy can catch much more than that(nothing stops him). So I think Juggy would win. "Spiderman can kick ass of both of them, shoot web on his eyes and call Thor while they rip his own eyes out, he he" Posted by on 03:05:2001 10:38 AM: Juggernaut isn't stupid...the man has a college degree. I don't care what Marvel said...Juggernaut is the man. Not only is he strong...but he can power up his powers to ungodly levels. He can breath underwater...nothing can stop him when he's running...he can snap people in half....and he can throw stuff in space with one hand. The hell with what Hulk can do...he can barely control himself at times....plus....Juggz has the best costume. ------------------------------------------------------------ http://kof5.tripod.com/Image7.png Custom Tag ID: "Void of Dark Dreams" Tae Kwon Do...learn the basics! Posted by Galactic on 03:05:2001 08:21 PM: Who cares... Cosmic Spidey coulda taken on both their asses at the SAME time. Lol Ok, that had nothing to do with the post, but Galactic just had to say it. Cosmic Spidey is the most powerful character ever in the Marvel Universe (Sez so on his old trading card) He coulda taken on Thanos, Galactus, Surfer, hell, even Watcher and the Celestials... But anyway, to the discussion on hand: Galactic would go with Hulk. He'll start off a LOT weaker than Juggernaut, since Juggy starts off at Full Jugg Power. It's like 2 cars. One has weaker accelleration, but higher top speed, since Hulk, when fully pissed off becomes incredibly strong and probably surpasses Juggernaut's power. But Jugg starts off at his top speed, so if he can finish off Hulk fast, the match is over. but if he drags it out, Hulk will eventually find a way to beat him... Hell... it's not all that hard to take out Juggernaut... Just get that helmet off his head, and just ONE of Hulk's punches to the helmetless Juggernaut Head should end it. ^_-; Posted by Galactic on 03:05:2001 08:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by Iceman: This response sounds the most logical to me. But what can I say. I like Iron Man, and a bunch of "weak" X-men (Gambit, Nightcrawler, Iceman, Archangel). Hmm.. actually... Only Archangel is weak in that group. Gambit is a damn powerful Character, for the reason Brandon Lee already discussed. Iceman - Not everything is even known about the extent of Iceman's powers. He's basically on the same level with the Human Torch, and everyone considers Torch to be a strong character. Iceman just looks bad cuz well... He's an X-man, and he has to be part of a TEAM. A large team, unlike Human Torch, where he is up with 3 other people who's powers differ from his so much that the writers give him better roles to play. Take for instance, when the X-men need something frozen, they don't have to go get Iceman. Storm can do it (Albeit a lot mor noisily than Iceman could) see the writers need to make up more situations where Ice man is needed. If Iceman was a solo character, you would see the full extent of his powers. No one can really fight him one-on-one if he really used his powers, cuz he'd just make about a million Ice clones and no one would be able to find him... Nightcrawler- C'mon this guy has super human agility, can see in the dark, is one of the best swordsman in the world, is practically invisible in the shade, very intelligent, and not to mention his mutant ability. Hell, if the writers didn't have to make the comics acceptable for children to read, we'd have some interesting Nightcrawler comics. He can teleport onto your shoulder, hug you, and teleport away only leaving your legs behind... You can just see it, Nightcrawler Teleporting behind Hulk, grabbing Hulk's massive arm, leg, or hell, even head, then teleporting 10 feet away holding Hulk's head in a sack. Archangel- this guy really is weak... he blows. His Mutant ability- he FLIES. but he also needs WINGS to fly, making him such a large target that in the early comics hunters accidentily shot at him and almost brought him down.. That would be some obituary: "Member of the Mutant Team X-men Brought Down by Billy-Bob Redneck Duck Hunter." This guy sucks. But unless your talking about Archangel with the metal Wings. At least then he looked cool and had some sort of ATTACK... ^_-; Posted by Galactic on 03:05:2001 08:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by lotusson: Okay, time for another comic nerd to step in. <IMG SRC="http://63.92.61.161/forums/biggrin.gif"> I know the crossover series where Superman beat Hulk was based on fan votes, but lets be serious. Superman would take the Hulk down either way. If you want to mix and match which version of the Hulk you want to throw up against Supey, then how about old Superman vs ANY Hulk. The old could literally move planets with his bare hands if he wanted too. He was so strong that DC intentially powered him down just to make the comic more fesable. That version of Superman would take out anyone. The One, The only One -The Lotus One [b] LOL damn straight. Golden Age Superman could friggin BLOW planets around... He coulda taken on both Hulk and Juggernaut TOGETHER. EASILY. And he also used his powers a lot better back then too. He would used his super speed (Remember, old Superman was just short on FLASH speed.) to kick the crap outta both of them before they evn knew he was around... ^_-; All times are GMT. The time now is 03:57 AM. Show all 137 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.